Author Topic: WOT Help  (Read 136337 times)

douglas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #645 on: June 21, 2009, 01:58:00 AM »
If Brandon doesn't get around to answering it in TGS I'll probably break down and Google it.
That won't really help.  No one but Brandon and the editors knows, and they aren't talking.

BigP

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #646 on: June 21, 2009, 05:10:49 AM »
I have a vague memory from back in the day that RJ acknowledged that one of the theories that had been published at some point was in fact correct.  As I recall, he used this as partial justification for saying, See?  It's obvious.  RAFO.  I figure that between looking up the theories, chucking the dumb ones and comparing the rest with a fresh read that I'll at least be able to claim that I knew it all along later  ;D .

Shard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #647 on: June 24, 2009, 09:11:44 PM »
I suspect everyone has seen the answer, or correct theory, even if they don't know it is the right one. So I don't know if it will be surprising or just satisfying to have a final answer to this long standing mystery.
We need the metaphor of Magic and Monsters to understand the Human condition ~Stephan Donaldson.

Danimari

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #648 on: June 25, 2009, 09:57:00 AM »
Came across this thread as I lurked about the forums. Kudos for joining the wotmaniacs! :D

I started my reread in preparation for tGS in November, but alas, I'm finding starting at the beginning slow again. However, your recaps of 4-8 (which occasionally blend together in my head... particularly the last few) encourage me to get there.

Regarding Asmo's death, isn't it obvious? Bela and Narg tag-teamed it using the True Sauce, a killer snack of pasta perfection.
Wotmaniac lurker.

Renoard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #649 on: June 26, 2009, 08:28:05 AM »
Bela is a dark friend of no small power.  Even the Chosen bow before the might of the shaggy mountain pony.  Narg, however, is a traitor.  He actually speaks to humans so must be eliminated.
You can always get what you want if you never count the cost.

bogin

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #650 on: June 26, 2009, 04:19:49 PM »
I understand this is a fantasy world etc., but even so, when I read things I always relate it to how I would react, so that's why I saw it as rape.  She was manipulative and creepy (in my mind) and if a guy did that to me I would feel violated.

I was glad when that story line ended because Tylin creeped me out and made the Mat parts a little less fun for me because it didn't feel like a healthy or fun relationship to me. 

Opinions of things like this vary a lot in our world too, so it makes sense we don't all agree. 

For some reason i think theres a difference between a guy being aggressive and a girl being aggressive. I can see how it could make you uncomfortable to picture yourself in mats situation but he is a guy, it's not relay the same thing.

Slightly off suptopic but does girls seem to be more on the side of Mat being raped while guys find it easier to accept an aggressive woman taking the initiative and just sees it as an interesting encounter for mat?

« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 11:08:35 PM by bogin »

Shard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #651 on: June 26, 2009, 06:33:43 PM »
Actually from what I have seen it's the girls that think Mat wasn't raped and the guys thinking he was.
We need the metaphor of Magic and Monsters to understand the Human condition ~Stephan Donaldson.

Patriotic Kaz

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #652 on: June 27, 2009, 12:05:06 AM »
She cuts of his bloddy clothes... and he was trying to run he even uses a child as a shield to avoid her advances how the hell is that consentual?
"Words are double edged blades. Only the great and the foolish play with knives." - Kaz the Buddah

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JoeC

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #653 on: June 29, 2009, 10:54:27 PM »
FINISHED KNIFE OF DREAMS!!!! ALL CAUGHT UP GUYS!!

Well, I actually finished it last Wednesday, so you'll have to forgive me for being lazy. I had a lot to think about. This book was EXCELLENT!! Fires of Heaven is still my favorite, but this one ranks a close second or third. Lot of action and great story. This is what all of the books should have been structured like.
  Okay, time for the update. I needed some help from wikipedia on everything that happened because SOOO MUCH happened! I can't remember it all. Here we go....

-The prolougue where Galad challenges Valda was intense. Valda grants his right to challenge whom he's accusing, only for Galad to turn around and say Valda was the one he was challenging. Very cool! Good fight scene. I'm finally happy to see Galad coming into his own as Gawyn has. It's a shame these two characters took so long to become so important.

-Surprisingly, I thought Egwene's story was the most compelling in this book. Usually it would be Mat or Rand where the action is. But her imprisonment in the White Tower was written so well. Her endless beatings at the hands of Silviana while still maintaining her dignity and claim to the Amyrlin Seat have shown how far her character has come. The subtle ways she sows dissent among the Aes Sedai. Jordan did a good job of showing how effective her methods were. How some Aes Sedai would get mad outright at the things she said, implying they agreed even if they wouldn't say it out loud. Egwene is slowly planting seeds here and there about how unstable an Amyrlin Elaida is. The only thing I don't get is that Beonin (who betrayed Egwene in the first place) told Elaida about Egwene's ability to communicate with the rebels via her dreams. Why hasn't  Elaida done anything about this??

-Mat and Tuon's relationship finally progressed....she completed the marriage ceremony!! Well, that was at the end but it's still a big deal lol. Mat and his Red Band army where battling Seanchan sent to kill Tuon throughout the book and eventually got help from the leader of the Deathwatch Guards. (Why would the Seanchan army have orders to kill Tuon but not the Deathwatch Guards??) Anyways, Tuon agrees to go with the DW guards for her safety and splits ways with Mat after completing the marriage ceremony. I don't really understand Tuon that much. She is more appealing in this book, and I've enjoyed the couple of chapters that were from her viewpoint, but I still just don't GET her. She has no problem watching Mat's army slaughter Seanchan with arrows. Aren't these her people?? By the way, the scene where Mat spanks Joline for slapping him had me laughing out loud. Nobody could do anything because of his foxhead medallion. For someone who hate Aes Sedai as much as Mat does, this must have been a big deal for him lol. She deserved it though. Joline is humbled very easily when she can't just wrap someone up in Air.

- Thom finally let Mat read his letter from Moiraine and HOLY CRAP!!! She's alive!! I guess she's prisoner (?) to the Finn's and only Thom, Mat, and one other person (I think it might be Noal) can save her but only if they themselves go. Otherwise she will die. This had my heart racing. I'd LOVE to have Moiraine back in the story. I've wanted to see her reaction to certain events for a long time since she "died." I want to see her meet Cadsuane. I want to see her reaction the the cleansing of saidin. What she thinks of Egwene as Amyrlin seat. Potential Thom/Moiraine romance?? So many things!!! I'd love to see other Aes Sedai's reactions to her being alive, as she is now legendary among Aes Sedai for killing TWO Forsaken herself. This is one plot thread I will eagerly be awaiting.

- Perrin finally rescued Faile. This is one storyline that went on for far too long lol. I thought it was creative pouring forkroot tea into their water supply. Also, when the Two River's archers are brought via a gateway to help Perrin, Tam is with them!!! I had totally forgotten what happened to him! I'm stoked to have him back in the story. The battle scenes with the Shaido were done very well. Perrin's Aes Sedai battling the Wise Ones who could still channel. Meanwhile, Faile manages to get a hold of the Oath Rod because Galine told her she'd help her escape if she got that for her. Surprise surprise, Galine betray her, Alliandre, and Morgase (as Maighdin) and takes off. They are all rescued by Rolan who is then killed by Perrin!! This I didn't like. I understand that Perrin would tear through anything and anyone to get to Faile but I actually liked Rolan. It was just so weird how he died. Perrin just smashed his head and Faile didn't even get upset. Maybe this is a future plot thread?? She decided not to tell him anything about Rolan. Smart decision I guess.
 Also, Aram tried to kill Perrin out of nowhere. He claimed that Masema convinced him that Perrin was a darkfriend. This I didn't see coming, but I actually thought it was pretty cool. I never liked Aram anyway lol. Perrin doesn't kill him though, he is struck by Shaido arrows......as he chose to try killing Perrin in the midst of a large battle. Smart one. I absolutely cannot wait until Masema is dealt with btw. I'm sick of him!!!

- Elayne gained the throne FINALLY!!!!! Once again Elayne's story kind of bogged down the book until the end. When she went to battle the Black Ajah and was captured was when Elayne became interesting again. Birgitte's rescue and subsequent battle was very well written. Now they has a terengal that can make balefire and some of the Black Ajah are captured. Since they used a gateway to take so many soldiers outside the city, they march right back in afterwards behind Arymilla's soldiers and box them in and defeat them. Thus...finally....mother of God finally.....she attains the crown. All of the other nobles stand with her and give her their support. Here's to hoping that her storyline moves past the politics in the future books.

-I thought what Nyneave did to Lan was tricky, but her love for him made me understand it. Though, the more I thought of it, the more I didn't like it. He wants to go to Sheinar but Nyneave uses a gateway and leaves him at World's End in Saldea!!! Why?!? What if he is killed or gets lost?? She'd feel pretty bad!! Anyways, it later shows her finding Lan's old countrymen and convincing them to find Lan and follow him to Sheinar. I thought it was pretty cool that Lan get's send to the end of the world and immediately make a b-line for Sheinar anyways. I figure that his storyline will culminate with him and his newly gathered army saving the day in one of the future books. I also look forward to the next time he sees Nyneave in person lol.

- Rand is fully convinced that Tarmon Gai'don is coming. The dead are walking and every now and them are strange ripples in the Pattern. He is supposed to meet with the daughter of the nine moons for a truce with the Seanchan because he can't find them and the shadow. First off, the battle scene where all the Trollocas and Myrdrall descend on Rand in his palace was AWESOME. Lews Therin took saidin from him and began using battle weaves that we haven't seen before!! Like, gateways that go horizontal and slice through line of shadowspawn. I never thought of that!! I love how Loagain and the Asha'man were all confused for a second then copied his weaves. Like the red arrows that shoot from his fingertips. Logain actually accuses Rand of holding things back from them once the battle is all over lol. When he goes to meet TDotNM he is ambushed. Turns out that it was actually Sermirhage in disguise. Her illusion flickered for one second revealing her to be fake, unfortunately Rand was unable to seize saidin in time and LOST HIS HAND for it!!!! Holy crap that sucks!! Unfortunately, I knew he lost him hand. The cover of Gathering Storm kinda spoiled it for me. At least I didn't know how. I totally didn't expect it to be Semirhage. She hasn't been very active throughout the books and all of a sudden she makes an attempt on Rand's life. (Why?? I thought Moridin told the Forsaken to only kill Mat and Perrin) Very well written scene btw. Now Semirhage is captive. The best part was when Cadsuane went face to face with and Air bound Semirhage and said "I look forward to long talks with you." or something like that. SOOOO COOL. Those are interactions I will be looking forward to in the forthcoming books.

Whew!!! My fingers hurt. There's a lot more to discuss but I am tired of writing right now. Hopefully you guys are as glad as I am that I am now caught up. November 6th is when I first started EOTW. Been a long time and I will very much enjoy being part of the discussions with you guys. Man, there was so much that happened in Knife of Dreams. Even stuff I didn't pick up in the book, only to learn about it when reading about it online. For example, I didn't know it was one of Cadsuane medallions that made Semirhage's illusion flicker. Or that what Taim said at the end, "Let the Lord of Chaos rule" was something ONLY the Forsaken have said. Man this story is deep. There's other things to discuss and I will be back to discuss them. I also had some questions for the people who've responded the most like douglas and Shard. I thank you very much for following me on my journey and reading these updates!! I am going to hold off reading New Spring until maybe October. I kinda wanted to take a little break from WOT and let everything settle. Plus, I wanted to read Warbreaker (of which I am not 60 pages into.) Don't worry, I officially am a fan of WOT now. Thanks again for all your insight you guys. We still have lots to talk about!!!

douglas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #654 on: June 30, 2009, 12:32:48 AM »
FINISHED KNIFE OF DREAMS!!!! ALL CAUGHT UP GUYS!!
Great!  Now head on over to the Wheel of Time FAQ and read some more. ;D

Oh, and make a note about November 3rd, the release date of The Gathering Storm.  Just a little over four months away.

-Surprisingly, I thought Egwene's story was the most compelling in this book. Usually it would be Mat or Rand where the action is. But her imprisonment in the White Tower was written so well. Her endless beatings at the hands of Silviana while still maintaining her dignity and claim to the Amyrlin Seat have shown how far her character has come. The subtle ways she sows dissent among the Aes Sedai. Jordan did a good job of showing how effective her methods were. How some Aes Sedai would get mad outright at the things she said, implying they agreed even if they wouldn't say it out loud. Egwene is slowly planting seeds here and there about how unstable an Amyrlin Elaida is.
Great scene.  It amazes me on review just how short it is when my memory keeps insisting on it being such a huge part of the book.  Just goes to show how well written it was and how much of an impression it left.  It's a tossup which of Egwene and Mat is my favorite character in this book, and this sequence is why.  I'm sure you'll be glad to know that the short blurb about TGS on the JordanCon program (also available a few other places, I think) gives Egwene quite a prominent focus.

The only thing I don't get is that Beonin (who betrayed Egwene in the first place) told Elaida about Egwene's ability to communicate with the rebels via her dreams. Why hasn't  Elaida done anything about this??
Because she can't.  Really, what can you do to stop an ability that requires nothing more than sleeping to use without completely giving up on trying to force her into the Novice role?  There might be a ter'angreal somewhere in the Tower's stockpile that would do the trick, but no Aes Sedai has any clue which one or how it might work.

-Mat and Tuon's relationship finally progressed....she completed the marriage ceremony!! Well, that was at the end but it's still a big deal lol. Mat and his Red Band army where battling Seanchan sent to kill Tuon throughout the book and eventually got help from the leader of the Deathwatch Guards. (Why would the Seanchan army have orders to kill Tuon but not the Deathwatch Guards??)
The Seanchan army would never accept an order to kill Tuon if they knew who their target really was.  They are given a description and offered a reward, but are lied to about the identity of their target.  That would never work with the Deathwatch Guard, though, because they all know Tuon by sight.

Anyways, Tuon agrees to go with the DW guards for her safety and splits ways with Mat after completing the marriage ceremony. I don't really understand Tuon that much. She is more appealing in this book, and I've enjoyed the couple of chapters that were from her viewpoint, but I still just don't GET her. She has no problem watching Mat's army slaughter Seanchan with arrows. Aren't these her people??
The bulk of the force that's really after her is all recruits from conquered mainland areas, not actual Seanchan soldiers.  Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if high ranking Seanchan nobles consider rank and file soldiers to be little more than expendable assets.

- Thom finally let Mat read his letter from Moiraine and HOLY CRAP!!! She's alive!! I guess she's prisoner (?) to the Finn's and only Thom, Mat, and one other person (I think it might be Noal) can save her but only if they themselves go. Otherwise she will die. This had my heart racing. I'd LOVE to have Moiraine back in the story. I've wanted to see her reaction to certain events for a long time since she "died." I want to see her meet Cadsuane. I want to see her reaction the the cleansing of saidin. What she thinks of Egwene as Amyrlin seat. Potential Thom/Moiraine romance?? So many things!!! I'd love to see other Aes Sedai's reactions to her being alive, as she is now legendary among Aes Sedai for killing TWO Forsaken herself. This is one plot thread I will eagerly be awaiting.
Yes, wonderful news, long anticipated by many theorists (see section 2.2.6 of the WOTFAQ).  Unfortunately, we will probably have to wait another year to see this one resolved.

- Elayne gained the throne FINALLY!!!!! Once again Elayne's story kind of bogged down the book until the end. When she went to battle the Black Ajah and was captured was when Elayne became interesting again. Birgitte's rescue and subsequent battle was very well written. Now they has a terengal that can make balefire and some of the Black Ajah are captured. Since they used a gateway to take so many soldiers outside the city, they march right back in afterwards behind Arymilla's soldiers and box them in and defeat them. Thus...finally....mother of God finally.....she attains the crown. All of the other nobles stand with her and give her their support. Here's to hoping that her storyline moves past the politics in the future books.
Brandon has mentioned that one character was already exactly where he or she needed to be for Tarmon Gai'don, and I think I've seen some reference to it being Elayne.  If that's correct, she will mostly disappear for the next two books.

-I thought what Nyneave did to Lan was tricky, but her love for him made me understand it. Though, the more I thought of it, the more I didn't like it. He wants to go to Sheinar but Nyneave uses a gateway and leaves him at World's End in Saldea!!! Why?!? What if he is killed or gets lost?? She'd feel pretty bad!!
Lan Mandragoran.  The Uncrowned King of Malkier.  In the borderlands.  Do you seriously think there is even the slightest chance he could possibly get lost or killed before he gets where he's going?  I don't.  He is not going to be in any serious danger until he gets to Tarwin's Gap and heads into the blight, and it's going to take him a long time to get there.  Time, by the way, which will allow people to join him, make him safer, and give his mission a chance of actually accomplishing something.  Remember way back in the Eye of the World when Agelmar says that if Lan ever raised the banner of the Golden Crane an entire army, tens of thousands strong, would spontaneously form around it from all the borderlanders coming to help him?  Nynaeve is forcing him to do that and forcing him to take enough time that the army will be able to gather.

First off, the battle scene where all the Trollocas and Myrdrall descend on Rand in his palace was AWESOME. Lews Therin took saidin from him and began using battle weaves that we haven't seen before!! Like, gateways that go horizontal and slice through line of shadowspawn. I never thought of that!!
Actually, those are regular vertical gateways.  They just move and keep opening and closing.  It's a way to take advantage of the newly revealed fact that shadowspawn cannot survive going through a gateway.

When he goes to meet TDotNM he is ambushed. Turns out that it was actually Sermirhage in disguise. Her illusion flickered for one second revealing her to be fake, unfortunately Rand was unable to seize saidin in time and LOST HIS HAND for it!!!! Holy crap that sucks!! Unfortunately, I knew he lost him hand. The cover of Gathering Storm kinda spoiled it for me. At least I didn't know how. I totally didn't expect it to be Semirhage. She hasn't been very active throughout the books and all of a sudden she makes an attempt on Rand's life. (Why?? I thought Moridin told the Forsaken to only kill Mat and Perrin)
She was actually trying to capture him.  Notice that she had several copies of both female and male a'dam ready to use, enough to put one on the neck of every channeler he brought regardless of what gender mix he chose.  And, well, the Forsaken have never exactly been a very united lot or taken well to being ordered around.

Now, what you can look forward to in TGS:
Brandon revealed at JordanCon that there are four major simultaneous but separated plot arcs to go through before everyone gets back together for Tarmon Gai'don.  Two of these, plus minor beginning stuff from the other two, will be in TGS.  The other two, plus maybe a little extra stuff at the end of the first two, will be in whatever Shifting Winds gets renamed to.  The final book, which will probably be titled A Memory of Light, will feature all the plot arcs rejoining and converging into the giant battle the entire series has been leading up to.

Judging by the short blurb on the JordanCon program, the two arcs in TGS will be Egwene in the Tower, and Rand trying to unite the nations and ally with the Seanchan.  I'm pretty sure the rescue Moiraine expedition is major enough to be one of the other two primary plot arcs, so I doubt we're going to see that until next year, unfortunately. >:(  Oh well, I'm sure there's plenty of awesomeness for all four plot arcs, and I'll be very happy about seeing Egwene take over the White Tower. :D

Patriotic Kaz

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #655 on: June 30, 2009, 01:13:51 AM »
I really have lost all interest in Egwene since she became Amrylin whe is to stupid, like darn near every Aes Sedai (the first weaver in the rebel camp is the worst), that Ashaman are their counterparts...they are equal and Rand can do whatever he pleases he doesn't need to be lead he needs to lead everyone else... Aes Sedai have lost all comprehension on who the dragon is and what it means to be the dragon. He leads all the world in the war against shadow they are just followers. >:(
"Words are double edged blades. Only the great and the foolish play with knives." - Kaz the Buddah

"Take off your sandals, for you are posting on holy ground." -  Yahweh Kaz

"Chaos, go to your room!" - Momma Kaz

IngtarWhoStoleChristmas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #656 on: June 30, 2009, 03:10:04 PM »
YAY Joe!

You will definitely want to pick up new spring at some point, it's a great read, and really quick too, only about 300 pages and all pretty fast paced. Some of the things that I was really curious about are answered in that book.

When you do get around to it, I hope we get to see a recap of that one too. It's been a blast going through the adventure with you :-)

Shard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #657 on: June 30, 2009, 11:48:36 PM »
Yeah Nynaeve has complete faith in Lan being able to ride to Tarwin Gap, fighting there however is another story which is why she bought herself and Lan time for an Army to be with or waiting for him at the Gap. Truly I expect an epic scene worthy of Lord of the Rings titanicly awesome battle.

I really loved Eggy's story in this book and was surprised by what she had decided to do. Truly it's brilliant, reduce AS casualities to nill, keep her army plus the Tower Guards intact and become Amrlyn seat to boot. She's got a head on her shoulders and I can't wait to see what else she does. I fear for the fates of Eliadia, Messanna and Alvarin.

Yeah now you have to wait with the rest of us *heh* Reading other books does help pass the time. Once you read up more on the WoT Faq you can take part in theory debates like Who Killed Asmo.

We need the metaphor of Magic and Monsters to understand the Human condition ~Stephan Donaldson.

douglas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #658 on: July 01, 2009, 01:21:28 AM »
I fear for the fates of Eliadia, Messanna and Alvarin.
I'm not sure I read that right.  Don't you mean you're gloating over what seems likely to happen to them soon?  Especially Elaida; that woman deserves demotion to Novice for a decade plus a daily penance equal to the worst she has ever assigned, minimum, for sheer blind arrogant stupidity.

Shard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #659 on: July 01, 2009, 03:01:06 AM »
I fear for the fates of Eliadia, Messanna and Alvarin.
I'm not sure I read that right.  Don't you mean you're gloating over what seems likely to happen to them soon?  Especially Elaida; that woman deserves demotion to Novice for a decade plus a daily penance equal to the worst she has ever assigned, minimum, for sheer blind arrogant stupidity.

Yes Douglas, once again it's impossible to get the right voice inflection expressed over the internet. I probably could have worded it better. *heh*
We need the metaphor of Magic and Monsters to understand the Human condition ~Stephan Donaldson.