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[darxbane]

You are judging which  character you like best based on and artists idea?  Ironically, if it wasn't for Perrin, Faile and Berelein would get along famously.  They are very much alike, even if the lack of POV for Berelein prevents you from seeing that she is a willfull and proud as Faile.  Berelein also goes too far at one point (that I won't spoil for Joe), and it seems all of you have forgotten about it.  I was reminded of something quite funny while checking out the re-read of WOT on Tor.com:  Mat bumps into Berelein and she ignores him.  When he calls her out on it, she stops, looks at him, then shakes her head and mutters "too much like me" and then walks away without ever actually acknowledging him. 

JoeC, keep on trucking.  I can't wait for you to find out the big surprise ability Mat's medallion possesses.

[SarahG]

On the Faile vs. Berelain, I'm completely on Faile's side.  Berelain knows perfectly well that Perrin isn't interested in her, that he loves Faile and is committed to her, but she keeps intentionally getting him in trouble with Faile and trying to threaten their relationship.  What is she even hoping to accomplish?  She knows Perrin won't choose her, all I can see is she's trying to make his life difficult - and usually succeeding.

I can see why people get frustrated with Faile for expecting Perrin to read her mind, and for not trusting him, but I find her a much more likeable as well as respectable character.

I don't quite see how Berelain and Mat are alike, other than their self-centeredness and love of luxury.  It's not like Mat goes around seducing people for his own devious Machiavellian purposes.

[achren99]

I'm going to go ahead and call that ridiculous, Vatdoro.  Honestly, an artist's idea of what they look like determining your opinion?  tsk tsk.

Ok, so they both are described to be beautiful--Faile in more of an exotic way and Berelain in more of a skanky way. lol  I actually like both characters, but Faile is TOTALLY justified against Berelain--and honestly Faile responds well given the circumstances.  Do the people who hate her try to put themselves in her shoes?  I'd insist on Berelain leaving camp or I would have gone back home and if Perrin loved me, he'd follow lol.

Berelain says she's too much like Mat after he gets mad at her for not speaking to him and demands she be civil...so I guess she thinks she is blunt and assertive like Mat.  They also like chasing people (romantically).

[Vatdoro]

I should have known my last comment might not go over that well with some of the ladies. Especially you, Achren. 

But, in my defense, I'm not letting " an artist's idea of what they look like determine my opinion." I actually love that guys WoT art. It's the best WoT art I've ever seen. Practically all of his depictions of the characters match what I've always imagined they looked like. But, I'm sure many of you imagine them differently.

When I first met Berelain, my opinion of her mirrored Joe's; "a real hoochy". But,  the more I read, the more Faile grates  on my nerves, and the more Barelain grows on me. Madness had a really good point when he mentioned how Barelain earned the respect of the Wise Ones, which is no easy task. There is a lot more to Barelain than "being a hoochy."  At times I found myself wishing Perrin had chosen Barelain instead of Faile. 

And, to try and get back on topic... Joe - I think this is one of my favorite threads on here right now. I love reading your reactions to the WoT as you read it for your first time. And now that there are a few more books planned for the series you'll get to wait (at least a little bit) before reaching the end. You'll probably even get to read the books at least once more. 

[JoeC]

Update! Finished Lord of Chaos last night!

This book had the most action packed ending of the series so far. I was really impressed at how this all turned out! Okay, let's see....

-Elayne, Nyneave, and Mat are left in Ebou Dar. They haven't found the bowl terengeal yet. I absolutely love how angry Nyneave is about telling her he was going to warm her bottom. I think she's overreacting but it's nice to see the tables turned. I think Elayne is wrong in trying to examine Mat's foxhead medallion. That medallion is Mat's one way of protecting himself from the people he trusts the LEAST. I was glad earlier in the series when Rand told Moiraine that Mat's medallion is OFF limits. It's his and no Aes Sedai can touch it. I've always liked Mat throughout this whole story and I feel that Egwene, Nyneave, and Elayne don't give him a fair shake. The man arrived in Salidar with an army that serves him and Nyneave yells at him like he was caught stealing blueberries or something. I certainly hope there is some point where Mat sets Nyneave straight, or she witnesses him do something that completely changes her respect for him. Mat deserves it I think.

-Rand gets captured!! This was unexpected. Where were all the Aeil that are usually in every crevice or corner if he has guests. I know the Aes Sedai arrived quickly, but jeez! I'm also a little disappointed that Rand fell for their trick. How could he not imagine they would disguise Aes Sedai as servants?? And the way the Aes Sedai acted when they had him captured!! Like he wasn't even a big deal. Oooh, I could FEEL Rand's anger. That was pretty rough how they tortured him like that. Now Rand will NEVER trust Aes Sedai again. "Not an inch, not a hair..." he says. This is unfortunate because Rand will no longer recognize whether they are Salidar or Tar Valon, with him or against him.
 I was so glad that Perrin rounded up all those soldiers and all those Aeil, met up with the people from Two Rivers flying the banner of Manatheren, and the wolves!!! They ALL came together to save Rand because at least THEY know that without him the world is doomed. The whole time they spent catching up to the Aes Sedai was a little bit too drawn out but when they got there was great.

-The big battle at the end was, like I said, the best this series has had so far. It's a bit unfortunate that there was no battle with a Forsaken, but this made up for it. Perrin, the Aeil, the nine Aes Sedai with them, the wolves, and all their soldiers arrive to find the Tar Valon Aes Sedai battling the Shaido Aeil who have them surrounded. Why did the Shaido turn on them?? They helped them capture Rand. It was the only part I didn't quite understand, although I did pick up that Sevanna wanted Rand for herself. This was a bloody battle and a bit graphic at some parts too. I didn't mind, it's a battle for God's sake! RJ did a great job addressing all the minor battles and the determination of Perrin to cut a straight path to his friend Rand. That's why I liked that so much, because he was fighting for his FRIEND. Not the Dragon Reborn, but his childhood buddy who he grew up together with.
 Rand manages to untie the shield on saidin and free himself from that locked chest with so much force he actually stills two of the Aes Sedai that were shielding him. He then methodically hunts down and entraps the Aes Sedai that had captured and tortured him one by one. Lews Therin (inside his head) was actually encouraging Rand to do this too! He REALLY wanted Galina, but he never found her. BTW, during Rand's captivity, it is confirmed that he can talk to Lews Therin in his head. If only he'd cooperate!
 Okay, when Taim and the Asha'man showed up, I almost leaped out of my seat. The image of all of the Asha'man wearing black and channeling against the Shaido was one I will never forget. That REALLY must have made all the Aes Sedai present very nervous. LOL.
 It was a great battle. I'm glad that no major characters died. Rand forced the Aes Sedai that came to help him to kneel and swear to serve him. I felt a little bad for them because they tried helping, but after his torture and imprisonment, I don't expect Rand to trust any Aes Sedai ever again. When he told them "Kneel! Or BE knelt!" I was like ooooooooh it's on!! Rand's not going to take crap from anyone ever again! BTW, he needs to go back to Tear and get Callandor so this crap won't happen to him again!! That thing has been stuck in the Stone of Tear for like 3 books!!

-"Halima" freed Moghedian. I had been worrying this would happen for a while now. Now I'm fearing for Egwene, Nyneave, and Elayne because I'm sure that is all Moghedian will be thinking about. Revenge. Although, Halima said she was summoned to Shayol Ghul. Maybe she'll have a new assignment. I can't imagine she would be in trouble, it wasn't her fault she was captured. But, this IS the Dark One we're dealing with here. Another Forsaken on the loose....

-Egwene thinks it might be Logain who freed Moghedian.

-Falion of the Black Ajah ( I think) is in Ebou Dar hunting for an angreal cache.

-Herid and Fel are torn apart by a gholam. I actually don't remember who these people are. I won't go to another WOT encyclopedia because I ran across some spoilers last time.

-Demandred's last words to the Dark One, "Have I not done well?" makes me believe even more that he is Taim, or is at least working with him. Another hint was how brutal his slaughter of the Shaido was. Maybe he's training the Asha'man to be dreadlords. If so, it just doesn't make sense!! Why wouldn't he just kill Rand?? Also, it said Mazrim Taim had been channeling for 15 years, but the Forsaken were freed only recently. Did Demandred kill him and take his place?? Grrrr!!! I love these books LOL.

I'm very happy with how this series is going and I'm glad I got involved in it. Although, some parts really do drag on forever, I don't feel that the story itself is too stretched out. There's plenty of stuff that could be trimmed and still be able to tell the story, but there's also plenty of major events that are very fun and interesting to read. Plus, since there's so much content, I bet a re-read of the series would be very fulfilling. Which is why I'm sure so many people re-read this series!!!!
Okay, I have to go to Barnes & Noble to pick up my copy of Crown of Swords. I don't know if I will take a break between CoS and Path of Daggers or not. Patrick Rothfuss' new Kingkiller book comes out this month and I've been waiting for that for a while. Or I could put it on hold until I finish WOT. That also would mean that Warbreaker would have to be put on hold. Sigh, I hate being behind. LOL I suppose I'd want to give those books as much attention as possible, rather than have them be a quick read in between WOT books. Plus, I have you guys to consider! We'll see after I finish CoS.
Thanks again for the feedback guys!!! I hope you continue to enjoy this thread!! I'm having a lot of fun keeping this thread going for you. Take care!!
-Joe

[IngtarWhoStoleChristmas]

Herid and Fel are torn apart by a gholam. I actually don't remember who these people are. I won't go to another WOT encyclopedia because I ran across some spoilers last time.

I thought it was Herid Fel (one guy not 2). He was the philosopher at the school that Rand and Min go to visit who is helping Rand puzzle out the prophecies and such.

Keep reading em till you hit the end. If you're going to stop and give yourself a small break I would suggest between Winter's Heart and Crossroads or Crossroads and Knife of Dreams....I'm not too worried about you stopping, there is an ending in Crown of Swords that will compell you ;-)

[melbatoast]

Yay! Another post from Joe! Don't have time for a lot of comments right now, but I will say that Herid Fel (one person) is the philosopher guy from the school in Cairhien that Rand has been talking to. Apparently he was on to something. Glad  you enjoyed the ending, it is one of the better ones. (Especially when you don't have to wait for the next book!)

[douglas]

and the wolves!!! They ALL came together to save Rand because at least THEY know that without him the world is doomed.

Yeah, their response when Perrin says "they have caged Shadowkiller" was a very nice moment.

Why did the Shaido turn on them?? They helped them capture Rand. It was the only part I didn't quite understand, although I did pick up that Sevanna wanted Rand for herself.

Sevanna wants Rand for herself.  Do you really think any group of Aes Sedai would willingly hand over the Dragon Reborn to an Aiel?

Rand manages to untie the shield on saidin and free himself from that locked chest with so much force he actually stills two of the Aes Sedai that were shielding him.

Three, actually.

Okay, when Taim and the Asha'man showed up, I almost leaped out of my seat. The image of all of the Asha'man wearing black and channeling against the Shaido was one I will never forget. That REALLY must have made all the Aes Sedai present very nervous. LOL.

That was definitely what really made the scene for me.  This is really the first full scale One-Power battle shown directly in the entire series and it is also the first major action by the Asha'man.  The sheer carnage that that many powerful combat-trained channelers can cause is incredible.  Plus, I really don't think Rand would have been able to win without them there.

It was a great battle. I'm glad that no major characters died. Rand forced the Aes Sedai that came to help him to kneel and swear to serve him. I felt a little bad for them because they tried helping, but after his torture and imprisonment, I don't expect Rand to trust any Aes Sedai ever again. When he told them "Kneel! Or BE knelt!" I was like ooooooooh it's on!! Rand's not going to take crap from anyone ever again!

Actually, that line was Mazrim Taim's.  Rand gave the demand to kneel, but Taim gave the threat of forcing them.

I especially liked the stated reasoning behind it - the promise of equal footing with the Tower, and enforcing it with the Tower Aes Sedai's current status because they didn't follow his directions.

BTW, he needs to go back to Tear and get Callandor so this crap won't happen to him again!! That thing has been stuck in the Stone of Tear for like 3 books!!

Patience, Callandor will return eventually.  Oh, if you go back and reread the scenes where he uses it you might notice something...

-Herid and Fel are torn apart by a gholam. I actually don't remember who these people are. I won't go to another WOT encyclopedia because I ran across some spoilers last time.

As stated already, Herid Fel is a single person and is the philosopher that was helping Rand puzzle out the Prophecies and his answers from the Aelfinn.

-Demandred's last words to the Dark One, "Have I not done well?" makes me believe even more that he is Taim, or is at least working with him.

Demandred is not Mazrim Taim.  Robert Jordan stated that explicitly when asked.

[Shard]

-Elayne, Nyneave, and Mat are left in Ebou Dar. They haven't found the bowl terengeal yet. I absolutely love how angry Nyneave is about telling her he was going to warm her bottom. I think she's overreacting but it's nice to see the tables turned. I think Elayne is wrong in trying to examine Mat's foxhead medallion. That medallion is Mat's one way of protecting himself from the people he trusts the LEAST. I was glad earlier in the series when Rand told Moiraine that Mat's medallion is OFF limits. It's his and no Aes Sedai can touch it. I've always liked Mat throughout this whole story and I feel that Egwene, Nyneave, and Elayne don't give him a fair shake. The man arrived in Salidar with an army that serves him and Nyneave yells at him like he was caught stealing blueberries or something. I certainly hope there is some point where Mat sets Nyneave straight, or she witnesses him do something that completely changes her respect for him. Mat deserves it I think.

I agree with you so much with this sentiment Joe, the Wondergirls certainly made me angry. The difference between Moraine and Elyane is that Moraine left it alone and didn't keep pestering Mat about it. I won't say any spoilers but you should remember Suian's assessment of Mat and comparing him to her uncle.

I will say this that Mat is one of my favorite characters, he just gets more and more badazz as the series goes on.

-Rand gets captured!! .

This is what I felt Alanna bonding Rand lead to, though it also helped in rescuing him. Rand is being driving farther and farther into a cold untrusting and calculating ruler. I sometimes wonder if the Forsaken are manipulating things for him to become like that or if it is more of Rand's character having trouble dealing with certain things. 

-"Halima" freed Moghedian. I had been worrying this would happen for a while now. Now I'm fearing for Egwene, Nyneave, and Elayne because I'm sure that is all Moghedian will be thinking about. Revenge. Although, Halima said she was summoned to Shayol Ghul. Maybe she'll have a new assignment. I can't imagine she would be in trouble, it wasn't her fault she was captured. But, this IS the Dark One we're dealing with here. Another Forsaken on the loose....

Oh Moggy is in BIG trouble alright. I think it should be important to remember that alot of these Forsaken like to create plots to use their enemies, to garner a stronger position first before striking at their target.

-Herid and Fel are torn apart by a gholam. I actually don't remember who these people are. I won't go to another WOT encyclopedia because I ran across some spoilers last time.

As stated before he is a kindly old man who gets distracted when Min's around, but he had some interesting theories on the Shadow it seems. I was really proud that Rand started up Schools of learning and invention.

-Demandred's last words to the Dark One, "Have I not done well?" makes me believe even more that he is Taim, or is at least working with him. Another hint was how brutal his slaughter of the Shaido was. Maybe he's training the Asha'man to be dreadlords. If so, it just doesn't make sense!! Why wouldn't he just kill Rand?? Also, it said Mazrim Taim had been channeling for 15 years, but the Forsaken were freed only recently. Did Demandred kill him and take his place?? Grrrr!!! I love these books LOL.

He may not be Demandred but I think he certainly IS Evil and out for his own. Remember what I stated about the Forsaken liking to plot and play with their targets before striking. Taim doesn't want to mess up the free meal so to speak, he isn't ready to grab at the crown himself just yet. It is possible he may be working with a Forsaken if not out for his own.

I think your going to enjoy Crown of Swords greatly *evil grin*

[JoeC]

and the wolves!!! They ALL came together to save Rand because at least THEY know that without him the world is doomed.

Yeah, their response when Perrin says "they have caged Shadowkiller" was a very nice moment.

"We come." So cool....

BTW, he needs to go back to Tear and get Callandor so this crap won't happen to him again!! That thing has been stuck in the Stone of Tear for like 3 books!!
Patience, Callandor will return eventually.  Oh, if you go back and reread the scenes where he uses it you might notice something...

When the Trollocs and Lanfear attack the Stone of Tear at the beginning of Shadow Rising??

-Herid and Fel are torn apart by a gholam. I actually don't remember who these people are. I won't go to another WOT encyclopedia because I ran across some spoilers last time.
As stated already, Herid Fel is a single person and is the philosopher that was helping Rand puzzle out the Prophecies and his answers from the Aelfinn.

Ah yes, I remember him now. Sorry. But the short paragraph at the end of LoC made it seem like "Herid" and "Fel" were two different people. I remember him now. He was easily distracted and rambled on about things unless interrupted. I had learned about gholams a while back but this was the first I've seen of one. Apparently they are extremely dangerous and powerful. I look forward to seeing more of them. Hopefully soon!!

[Shard]

Wolves are awesome in any Fantasy book.

And you'll see more Gholam in CoS.

[Renoard]

The foreshadowing suggested to me that the destruction of the seals will precipitate the Last Battle but what Fel discovered, in my opinion is that the seals have to be destroyed and battle completed in order to "finally" heal as opposed to sealing the bore.  Now I may be wrong and really we'd have to ask EUOL and he'd say wait till October... but it seems logical that there will be a call back to the circular nature of the wheel.  Rigney seemed of two minds on that but, logically, if time is a circle and there was no bore before Therrin's contemporaries opened it, then after the "last" Battle it has to be healed entirely.  blood on the rocks

Just a thought.

[achren99]

Maybe this is just me, but I think one of the best scenes in the entire series involves a ghloam in CoS.  I don't know why I like it so much...but I can just picture it so well.  I think it would make a good scene in a movie (of course they'd ruin the way the characters look, though...)

Yeah, I thought Demandred was Taim too.  It would have been SO cool.  But, that's ok, I suppose.

I love Mat--he's my favorite--but I also understand why the girls act like they do--they're used to it.  They're used to him being the one to screw things up and they're used to being in charge/being super cool.  Does Mat deserve it?  Not really, but maybe a little bit...he's kind of a scoundrel and likes being a scoundrel.  All in all, it's a fun dynamic between the characters that sets up lots of funny situations.

[darxbane]

Joe, your Taim/Demandred theories are very intuitive.  It has always been my belief that Demandred is working through Taim.  He does not have Rand killed because of the whole "kneel to the Dark Lord" mumbo jumbo, which some of the Forsaken follow and others don't.

As for a theory on how to seal the bore.  The amount of continued emphasis put on the need for men and women, Saidar and Saidin, to work together to create the truly great things in the world, it stands to reason that the combined power is needed to seal the bore.  When it was tried during the AOL, only Saidin was used, and the results were obviously less than ideal.

Hmmm, what would make the Supergirls respect Mat?  Muwahahaha!  I have to get my bearings before posting again.  I am trying to remember some chronology so I don't spoil anything.

[JoeC]

OOOOPS!! I forgot to mention that Lan is now bonded with Myrelle. Wow, why would Moiraine pass it to her?! I can't wait until Nyneave finds out. I'm 115 pages into Crown of Swords!! It's getting good!