Author Topic: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*  (Read 7163 times)

Chaos

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For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« on: October 22, 2008, 03:02:28 AM »
This thread is to settle the bet regarding Elmandr's bet with myself.

The bet is as such:

Quote from: elmandr1
If Vin Doesn't unite with the mist spirit, i will eat my hat. Yes, i did say "eat my hat."

and i mean it, if it so happens that she doesn't, i will post a picture of me eating a ketchup covered cap...

But if it does happen--i am to be addressed--by all who post the word "aye" (indicating their challenge)--as Sir Elmandr1.

Elmandr claims he did, in fact win the bet because Vin merged with the mists. I, however, say that the bet clearly states that Vin unites with the "mist spirit". Very different. (You can see that bet on page 13 of the Countdown)

Either way, both Elmandr and I will present our "cases", and we have both decided that members of "The Crew" (essentially the theorizers on the board before MB3 came out) can render judgment.

Myself, I think that it is pretty clear that Elmandr lost the bet, but let's wait until both Elmandr and I post our case :P

Yes, this is the best way to settle bets! Shush.
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Elmandr

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2008, 03:06:47 AM »
Okay than, set up a day for the trial. I need time to prepare my defense.
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Andrew the Great

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2008, 05:20:05 AM »
I anxiously await the day of judgement.... how about Friday?
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Chaos

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2008, 05:21:17 AM »
Sure, why not.
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Qarlin

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2008, 05:56:12 AM »
Friday it is, then.

Are we going to have a poll thing to vote on?

Chaos

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2008, 06:36:59 AM »
No, I don't think so. People can just post their vote. This would prevent a lot of the newer members from potentially throwing off the result (and boy, there are a lot of new members).
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firstRainbowRose

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2008, 07:12:29 AM »
Would that be strictly for those who were active in the theory forums, or anyone who was active during that time?  'Cause I didn't post too much with theories (I did read a few of them though).
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Chaos

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2008, 07:18:22 AM »
Pretty much everyone over Level 5 counts. I wouldn't focus too much on it, just on Friday post your "judgment". It'll be really obvious if someone doesn't fit, but it's an inclusive thing. Everyone pre-October 14th members can (yes, that includes Ookla) :P

EDIT: But obviously, you should have read MB3. If not... you really shouldn't be in this thread at all.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 07:21:22 AM by Chaos2651 »
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Reaves

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2008, 12:26:41 PM »
I look forward to Friday! Really, there are several different ways to interpret what happened...
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Elmandr

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2008, 04:30:49 PM »
Friday then.  8). Im cool as a cat on a window sill. Nothing for me t-t-t-o worry about.
"I love you."
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"Really? So whats this burning sensation i'm having in my stomach?"
"Too much ale."
"Not love?"
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"I don't feel good."
"They do that to you."
"my legs, their numb."
"Hahaha!"
"haha!"

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2008, 08:11:28 PM »
Just in case I don't get in on Friday (I'm very busy)
elmandr is wrong, the newly dubbed "Lord," Chaos is correct.  I will of course try my hardest to stop in by friday just in case the arguments change my opinion (which I don't think they will).
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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2008, 08:24:03 PM »
Why wait until Friday?  There is no case here.  The Mist Spirit died talking to Elend, his body rematerialized and thumped into the ash.  She replaced Leras, she didn't merge with him.  This is clear.  You were on the right track, Elmandr, but there is a big difference between absorbing the mists and merging with the spirit that controlled the mists.
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Chaos

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2008, 08:48:54 PM »
That's what I said.

The mist spirit and the mists are not the same thing. Elmandr cannot make the claim that the mist spirit and the mist are the same thing, because he did not outright say that they were. He did not say that they were both of Preservation, either. Rather, he said that the mist spirit were all the spirits of the previous Heros of Ages, which is completely different from Preservation.

So, the kind judges here can take Elmandr's bet one of two ways: 1. In the literal manner or 2. In the original of the bet. If you look at the literal meaning, Elmandr clearly lost, because Vin did not merge with the mist spirit itself. If Elmandr makes the claim that the mist spirit and the mist were one in the same, that would also be incorrect. The mist spirit is the consciousness of Preservation (Leras), while the mist is the power itself. These are two different things entirely. And since the mist spirit died, Vin could not and never did merge with it, which is what the literal reading of the bet would entail.

If the judges interpret the bet in its original spirit, we can see that this hurts Elmandr's claim even more. Elmandr claimed that the mist spirit were the combined souls of previous HoAs. So, if you take this in mind, this doubly hurts Elmandr's claim that the mist and the mist spirit were the same, because if you look at the spirit of the bet, then Elmandr believed at the time that the mist spirit and the mist were inherently separate.

Therefore, in my official opinion, there is no question that Elmandr lost the bet.

(This is my official stance :P)
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Elmandr

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2008, 09:32:16 PM »
Wait, we all assumed that the mist spirit was apart of the mist--its in the name. When people fell randomly, who did this? the mist alone? Or was it the mist spirit alone? none. it was both. This  happened because the mist spirit is essentially apart of the mist. Your thoughts are different from you actions but they are apart of a whole.

It is wrong to say it now--since we can distinct the differences, however its seems rather strict and arrogant to argue that i should have known the difference before hand.

when i said mist spirit i meant the mist. i only refer ed to the mist spirit because it was the face of the entity. When Vin first merged with the mist was the mist spirit around? No. And yet that is the key reasons behind why i thought they would merge.

so when i say the mist spirit to refer to the mist--it should be overlooked because their was no indication of a separate role in them before hand. All that matters is that they are pieces of the same thing. One was the arm, the other the leg. yet both were apart of the whole.

Is it right to say preservation died? no, it isn't. It just lost its consciousness. Almost in a vegetative state. the body functions still.

Why i thought they would combine is a whole different matter. many people have come up with theories and most did not attempt to explain. Those how did usually we wrong. i was right that they would combine--but wrong on why...but was that really a part of the deal?

Take for instance Squire Chaos, he gloated the other day about guessing that Ruin would want the Atium Cache. And i applause the feat. However, he did not attempt to explain. Leaving his theory broad and open for interpretation. The more detailed you get the tighter the room is for what is correct.

So, trying to say that i am wrong because she combined for a different reason is true. But i am not wrong when it comes down to what we bet--which is what would happen--but wrong in why. And that is a topic and discusion of its own.

"I love you."
"you dont. You just think you do because i'm all you know."
"Really? So whats this burning sensation i'm having in my stomach?"
"Too much ale."
"Not love?"
"No. But i can see how you confused the two."
"I don't feel good."
"They do that to you."
"my legs, their numb."
"Hahaha!"
"haha!"

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Re: For the Crew: Elmandr's Bet *SPOILERS*
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2008, 09:57:06 PM »
Well I've been reading this site for a while now but I didn't register until a certain mistcloak made me. So, I might not be cool enough to have my vote count but you're getting my two cents anyway...

elmandr1 - I can see it how you are presenting it... Preservation was the Mist Spirit and the Mist were Preservation therefore you shouldn't eat your hat... but all it really seems like is a desperate attempt not to eat a hat. You were very adamant about Vin merging with the Mist Spirit and that wasn't done. 

If we had know at the time that the Mist and Mist Spirit were of two parts of one entity at the end of WoA, I'da voted for you, but since they were two separate entities, as far as we knew... I'll get the ketchup.