What will happen in book three: HOA.

[Reaves]

With the Inquisitors Ruin doesn't care what words of wisdom might exist on their spikes; he truly doesn't. Apparently the restriction only applies when he wants to change something.

[Elmandr]

With the Inquisitors Ruin doesn't care what words of wisdom might exist on their spikes; he truly doesn't. Apparently the restriction only applies when he wants to change something.

That seems like a paradox of facts....

Perhaps, The Ruin changed the writings yet again...making the second scripture flawed...

[happyman]

You know I don't have my book handy but I was almost positive that the quote was "anything not in steel can't be trusted".

You said you read it in the book so I'll take your word on it, it seems to change things a little for me.

The question I have is why would the plate be of Iron and not Steel. What does it matter anyway? Metal is metal. Yes they all do different things allomanticaly but the inquisitors are like mistborn and have use of all metal. Maybe in Hemalurgy it matters what kind of metal is piercing you to allow certain effects. Other than that I don't see what it would matter what kind of metal the plates covering the spikes would be made of.

lol.

Actaully its, "i write this in steel, because anything not in metal can't be trusted..."

so that's why i'm confused...

did he think all metals could resist the Ruin but it turns out that steel is an exception....?

he's wrote it in steel, but said METAL could be trusted...?

i think that he is on to something but its hard to tell for sure.

What he is saying is quite simple, actually.

Anything not written in metal cannot be trusted.

Thus if a source is to be considered trustworthy, it must at a bare minimum be written in metal.

Steel is a metal.  Thus if his record is written in steel, it is possible that it is trustworthy.  By his logic, the same would go for records written in gold or aluminum, but apparently he chose steel.  Maybe it was all he had.  Or maybe there is more logic that we haven't seen.  But based on what he wrote, it seems that he chose steel simply because it was a metal.

That's all those lines mean really.  No need to complicate matters.

Then how do you explain the Ruins hold over the STEEL inquisters?

DURRRR....it is complicated--Sanderson made sure of that.

First of all, that wasn't theorizing on my part.  I was simply parsing the logic in Kwaan's inscription because there seemed to be some confusion about what he was saying.  If there is anything in the book that contradicts his logic, that takes precedence.

You bring up a good point, though.  Maybe he controls the steel inquisitors by creating electric current in the metal going through their brain (of course, this brings up the point:  how do they survive with steel spikes inside their brains)?  Electric current is much, much easier to create and change, from an energetic standpoint, than the bulk atomic structure of a metal.  It is perfectly reasonable that Ruin can  modify the currents in the metals, and in turn control the inquisitors, without being able to control human thought (no easy access with not metal in their heads!) or change the bulk properties of metals. 

[Andrew the Great]

However, that theory does not work when you consider Zane, who only had one spike in his chest. Yet he could still hear God's voice.

[GreenMonsta]

That would also include something that the misborn world has shown no knowledge of. . .  ELECTRICITY!

I mean come on now I highly doubt Brandon would wait this long and then drop something like the knowledge of electric currents and how they could effect the brain. Not trying to sound harsh but its hard to avoid. Now I could see why it seems plausible and heck I guess in the end it really is but I feel it isn't probable.

[Elmandr]

That would also include something that the misborn world has shown no knowledge of. . .  ELECTRICITY!

I mean come on now I highly doubt Brandon would wait this long and then drop something like the knowledge of electric currents and how they could effect the brain. Not trying to sound harsh but its hard to avoid. Now I could see why it seems plausible and heck I guess in the end it really is but I feel it isn't probable.

There is no way electricity exists, not in Mistborn.

There is absolutely no indication in both books.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

Has there ever been a lightning flash?

[Elmandr]

Has there ever been a lightning flash?

*plugs ears* La-la-la-la-la-la-what?

[GreenMonsta]

You know it would take some reading to find out but as far as I know I don't remember and lightning. Even if there was it would take an understanding of what lightning was and then a way to harness the energy for it to be of any use and so far we have no reason to think this exists.

Has there ever been a lightning flash?

  Come on Ook thats not even good misdirection. I thought you were better than that.

[happyman]

The point about Zane is well taken.  Of course, he could just hear Ruin---he wasn't being tele-operated like the Steel Inquisitors seem to be.  If the spike went through (or near) his spine, maybe it gave Ruin some--but not all--access to his nervous system, which with proper control might be enough to make him hear a voice. 

This is still just a simple hypothesis, but I don't think Zane necessarily proves it wrong; it just needs refining.

As for the objections to electricity---first of all, Ookla has a point.  The Mistborn world seems to work just like ours, including such things as a spherical world, Newtonian orbital mechanics, and radiation hazards from the sun, things which most people considered totally irrelevant for the first two books.  Thus it is simplest to assume that electricity does exist, just like in our world, unless proven otherwise.  The fact that the people in Mistborn don't know how to use electricity to make themselves and their lives better proves absolutely nothing; that was our worlds situation for most of history.  Ruin, on the other hand, should know about electricity, if it exists, but it would hardly be inclined to tell us how to use it properly.

[GreenMonsta]

No i agree. The world does seem to operate in the same manner as our own in a natural way. And yes the existence of electricity is possable I'm not trying to disprove it, I just feel that the introduction to electricity in anyway this far into the series is a little far fetched. Now the spike going into his spine would allow access to his central nervous system and I don't even see why it wouldn't allow tele-operation. I mean yeah Ruin might not have controlled his brain but the body operates from impulses sent down the spine so if the spike went into his spine Ruin may have even been able to control his body. The thing is it didn't have to. All Ruin had to do was subvert Zanes thinking and cause Zane to make the decisions himself. I am more draw to the conclusion that the spikes have something to do with a magic system and not a "conventional" (if you follow my meaning) system. It just seems to go with the story more. I mean I'm sure there are fossil fuels in this world but you don't see and engines do you. These things come about with the progression of humanity that seems to have been stalled in the mistborn world.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

I've suggested that metalminds store information on the quantum level and that Ruin is able to alter information stored in them by flipping quantum bits.

If Ruin can alter information stored in a metalmind, can he alter other attributes stored in metalminds as well?

[happyman]

I've suggested that metalminds store information on the quantum level and that Ruin is able to alter information stored in them by flipping quantum bits.

If Ruin can alter information stored in a metalmind, can he alter other attributes stored in metalminds as well?

Are you trying to suggest that Ruin could somehow pervert or change things like speed or weight or healing or age?  Perhaps make it so that instead of youth, you get aging, or instead of weight, you get---something else?

Are you suggesting that this relates to the other odd properties of Hemalurgy?  Like the fact that Inquisitors stay alive with huge spikes through their heads?  If the hemalurgy is keeping them alive, if Ruin perverted the "life-support system", perhaps he could pervert their thoughts and emotions via the same system that keeps them alive.

Oh, and incidentally, if we are talking about flipping bits at the quantum level, we had better be talking about the physics in the world as we know it right now, plus magic.  This means electricity would work in Mistborn exactly as at present in our world.  It's not like this would be a stretch for fantasy genres; even Tolkein attempted to connect his fantasy world to the "real world."

[Peter Ahlstrom]

I'm not saying Brandon ever reveals how Ruin does everything he does. My quantum bit idea is an attempt to come up with a logical explanation for why Ruin would be able to change information written in metal (stored in metalminds) but not information written in metal (actually etched into metal), which would otherwise seem like a contradiction.

I think that unless we're given a textual reason to believe otherwise, we can assume that any particular law of nature that applies in our world also applies in Brandon's worlds. There's the whole concept of mixing the familiar with the unexpected.

[Elmandr]

I'm not saying Brandon ever reveals how Ruin does everything he does. My quantum bit idea is an attempt to come up with a logical explanation for why Ruin would be able to change information written in metal (stored in metalminds) but not information written in metal (actually etched into metal), which would otherwise seem like a contradiction.

I think that unless we're given a textual reason to believe otherwise, we can assume that any particular law of nature that applies in our world also applies in Brandon's worlds. There's the whole concept of mixing the familiar with the unexpected.

Well to answer your question, Ruin was able to alter the memorized texts within the metal minds--he did it to all of the terris council.

Kwaan could realize this only because he had an uncanny ability to memorize a sheet of paper at a glance without his metal minds.

so that answers your question but raises so much more for me....

Truly, Ookla, you are a master of your craft.