The Countdown

[spejoku]

...I'm pretty sure that Vin's anyalasis of the Mist spirit stabbing Elend was mostly accurate.  How else would the MS be able to get Vin to keep from releasing Ruin?  Of course, Vin obviously did some minor changing while she had the power from the WOA, maybe there's other, more subtle results other than Elend becoming Mistborn.

What I want to know is the Origin of Allomancy.  The story says that the LR gave it to the men who helped him reach the WOA, but did it exist before or was it completely created by him?  My theory is that he created it along with the LR mists so he'd have more of an advantage once the power rush from the WOA wore off. 

[Andrew the Great]

I'm suggesting that The Well is meant to be the evil, or the great power that the HOA must defeat. The Well is the CORE of the issue.

Hmmm. That's an interesting idea. I don't personally like it, but I can't disprove it with anything off the top of my head, so for the moment, it stands as a possibility.

Ok, ask yourself where Allomancy was born...answer that and then i will continue with this part of the debate, if it has not become aparrent.

Actually, we have absolutely no confirmation on when allomancy originated. We know that the first mistborn (that we know of) originated with the Lord Ruler's Ascension. That does not by any means mean that allomancy was not around before that.

Ehm. In Greek Mythology, from which the word Hero orginates, when a warriors sets out to war, like in Troy or the like, if s/he shows great valor in battle, they become or are refered to one of two names; Champion and Hero. Whats the difference? A Hero dies before the war is over...

In English (Brandon's native language),  a hero is someone who others admire. There is no reason to think that we are going with the Greek mythology definition instead of the English one. It's a possibility, but I think that Hero means hero, as in someone who others admire.

The Deepness must be destroyed, and apparently I’m the only one who can do so. It ravages the world even now. If I don’t stop it soon, there will be nothing left of this land but bones and dust.

22 – At first, there were those who didn’t think the Deepness was a serious danger, at least not to them. However, it brought with it a blight that I have seen infect nearly every part of the land. Armies are useless before it. Great cities are laid low by its power. Crops fail, and the land dies.

This is the thing I fight. This is the monster I must defeat. I fear that I have taken too long. Already, so much destruction has occurred that I fear for mankind’s survival.

Is this truly the end of the world, as many of the philosophers predict ?

28 – Sometimes, my companions claim that I worry and question too much. However, while I may wonder about my stature as the Hero, there is one thing that I have never questioned: the ultimate good of our quest.

The Deepness must be destroyed. I have seen it, and I have felt it. This name we give it is too weak a word, I think. Yes, it is deep and unfathomable, but it is also terrible. Many do not realize that its sentient, but I have sensed its mind, such that it is, the few times I have confronted it directly.

It is a thing of destruction, madness, and corruption. It would destroy this world not out of spite or out of animosity, but simply because that is what it does.

29 – The others all think I should have had Kwaan executed for betraying me. To tell the truth, I’d probably kill him this moment if I knew where he’d gone. At the time, however, I just couldn’t do it.

The man had become like a father to me. To this day, I don’t know why he suddenly decided that I wasn’t the Hero. Why did he turn against me, denouncing me to the entire Conclave of Worldbringers?

Would he rather that the Deepness win ? Surely, even if I’m not the right one – as Kwaan now claims – my presence at the Well of Ascension couldn’t possibly be worse than what will happen if the Deepness continues to destroy the land.

18 If only the Deepness hadn’t come when it did, providing a threat that drove men to desperation both in action and belief.

46 The two are not the same.

I sense a craftiness behind these changes, a manipulation subtle and brilliant. I have spent the last two years in exile, trying to decipher what the alterations could mean. I have come to only one conclusion. Something has taken control of our religion, something that cannot be trusted. It misleads, and it shadows. It uses Alendi to destroy, leading him along a path of death and sorrow. It is pulling him toward the Well of Ascension, where the millennial power has gathered. I can only guess that it sent the Deepness as a method of making mankind more desperate, of pushing us to do as it wills.

That's why I think the Deepness is terrible.

The mist spirit being connected to the deepness does not make any sense. The only evidence so far I've seen to suggest it is this theory. If you could present something to support this, it would help.

And the Hero of Ages killing themselves while holding the power would be REALLY anti-climactic. Besides, we know this can't be the solution (unless there's a second well) because Vin already released the power and there obviously has to  be some sort of resolution to the series.

[GreenMonsta]

My god this page is growing to like a page a day. I feel like I am reading a book. Not a bad thing.

[VegasDev]

The story says that the LR gave it to the men who helped him reach the WOA

This is another thing I do not quite understand. Rashek supposedly hated those from Khlennium with a passion and probably anyone else outside of Terris, yet he enslaves his fellow Terrismen while giving Allomancy to people he most likely hates. Presumably the only reason he put the Terrismen into breeding programs in the first place was so that another Lord Ruler couldn't be created. Why not just destroy Allomancy and leave your own people alone? Something doesn't add up.

[Elmandr]

That's why I think the Deepness is terrible.

The mist spirit being connected to the deepness does not make any sense. The only evidence so far I've seen to suggest it is this theory. If you could present something to support this, it would help.

And the Hero of Ages killing themselves while holding the power would be REALLY anti-climactic. Besides, we know this can't be the solution (unless there's a second well) because Vin already released the power and there obviously has to  be some sort of resolution to the series.

WEAK. All of your quotes were weak. Each one was of either a speculation or a character assuming that the Deepness was the problem...weak. However, i have updated my theory, for many obvious reasons, and i think you might agree. What if the mist doesn't become the Deepness until the sun rises? That would explain why it's begining to cling on a little while longer after sunrise. It would also explain why the Deepness was such a bother then; at night not many people were out on the streets--but during the day? Problem.

Is that a better theory?

[GreenMonsta]

First of all who are you quoting? Second of all who the heck are you? Who said that you couldn't speculate? Most people don't take too kindly to other people calling them out the way you are starting to do. Personally I find if you don't like someones idea then drive on with whatever idea you had and ignore their post. There is no reason for you to be rude. None at all and frankly, I don't care if you feel your post has more credibility some of the things that we take as fact now were born of sheer speculation. I wish I was around here when people were speculating on what Ruin was or Hermology. I'm glad you weren't. Keep your thoughts to yourself unless they are kind or useful.

[Chaos]

Okay, okay, that's enough. We've done two days on the Hero of Ages discussing elmandr's theory. Time to switch gears, not grind to a halt.

I like spejoku's idea for T-25 days. Specifically, the Origin of Allomancy.

Discuss!

(If you want to discuss the HoA theory more, then use the "Vin as HoA" topic. That's sort of become the topic where HoA ideas are talked about)

[GreenMonsta]

Agreed.

I've heard somepeople suggest that Allomancy was born from TLR during or shortly after his ascention. I don't know if I follow this thinking. I feel that both Ruin and Preservation are tied to a power, Ruin and Hermology, and Preservation and Allomancy. Now this is SPECULATION but Ruin can obviously use hermology right. I have for some reason tied the mist spirit to Preservation seeing how it attempted to stop Vin from releasing Ruin. The spirit has some sort of Allomancy so I assume Preservation has something to do with allomancy as well.

If any of this happens to turn out to be true then I feel its safe to say that Allomancy found its roots before TLR and perhaps it was from a previous HoA if there even were any or perhaps it was born of Preservation it self.

[Elmandr]

Agreed.

I've heard somepeople suggest that Allomancy was born from TLR during or shortly after his ascention. I don't know if I follow this thinking. I feel that both Ruin and Preservation are tied to a power, Ruin and Hermology, and Preservation and Allomancy. Now this is SPECULATION but Ruin can obviously use hermology right. I have for some reason tied the mist spirit to Preservation seeing how it attempted to stop Vin from releasing Ruin. The spirit has some sort of Allomancy so I assume Preservation has something to do with allomancy as well.

If any of this happens to turn out to be true then I feel its safe to say that Allomancy found its roots before TLR and perhaps it was from a previous HoA if there even were any or perhaps it was born of Preservation it self.

Though you may be on to something, you left it to open and with too many options. If indeed allomancy arrived after TLR, then it can't be apart of the Mist spirit. Given that we know that the mist spirit prior to TLR's ascension.

So your thought of It coming from another, past, HOA makes more sense.

P.S. If you look at the past few posts between Andrew and I, you will see that we both were exchanging the same sort of criticism. I Don't do it to other random people such as yourself. I'm sorry you were so deeply hurt. I suggestion analyse the situation before outing yourself. SPECULATION without an analytic basis is just assumption. Anyone who has been the victom of anothers ASSUMPTION has the right to be angry. I pass that right. Lets just stick to the Thread. .

I, myself, thought this question was answered? I thought that the metal that Vin fed to Elend is the explanation of Allomancy. However, if the question is who was the first Allomancer? I'd have to say...TLR. He found it at the WOA back when he first arrived, a thousand years back. I don't think it was one of his creations.

He gave the power of Allomancy to the nobles right, thats the belief. hmm. That gives me an idea.

Alendi, insecure and afraid as he was, decides to, after intensive presuation and insistence of Rashek, to let Rashek obtain the power at the WOA. The mist spirit stabs Alendi, So Rashek, gives him the Mysterious tablet, therebye saving his life and making him the first MB.

So, that too. Either TLR or Alendi (only because that would explain why he gave the powers to another people.)

[GreenMonsta]

Ok were cool.

The thing about allomancy is I thought it did come from before TLR. And if and its a big if allomancy comes from this bead then it could have existed for ever. The idea of some bead granting allomantic powers is still a little far of a stretch for me. I mean If she gave him a bigger bead would he have been a stronger mistborn? We don't know. I think either a past HoA created allomancy or it comes from Preservation.

[VegasDev]

It's also quite possible that TLR created the beads. If he had the power to move planets, I don't think it's that far-fetched that he created a bead that could alter your DNA.

[Elmandr]

Ok were cool.

The thing about allomancy is I thought it did come from before TLR. And if and its a big if allomancy comes from this bead then it could have existed for ever. The idea of some bead granting allomantic powers is still a little far of a stretch for me. I mean If she gave him a bigger bead would he have been a stronger mistborn? We don't know. I think either a past HoA created allomancy or it comes from Preservation.

Essentially it comes down to where Atium and...Mistium, we'll call it, came from. If we figure that, out i think we will find the answer to where Allomancy came from.

Was the Bead CREATED to grant allomantic powers or FOUND? YOU see if it was created, it might very well be TLR, or it might have been a chemical reaction the earth had from being exposed to the WOA for so long--that could be another thing. It can also be FOUND, if that is the case...it might have been around before the Terris people.

[GreenMonsta]

The thing is IF this bead even grants allomantic powers. If it is the source then what decides if a person is going to be a misborn or misting? Is it genetic dilution or something else? Another question is after the bead is taken (if it grants allomantic powers) then does the trait then get passed on genetically?

[VegasDev]

The thing is IF this bead even grants allomantic powers. If it is the source then what decides if a person is going to be a misborn or misting? Is it genetic dilution or something else? Another question is after the bead is taken (if it grants allomantic powers) then does the trait then get passed on genetically?

I assume two things. First, that the bead grants the consumer full Mistborn traits. Second, these traits can be passed down just like every other trait and just like every other trait, can disappear and reappear down the line.

[Chaos]

I have extensive theories about the nature of Allomancy and where it came from.

As you may remember, I believe that Allomancy is actually caused by the Mists. I won't go into great detail here (if you want detail, I talk about it in the topic called "The Mists", which is now on Page 4 of the forums. By the way, a lot of good theory topics have fallen back to page 3 and 4 like Hemalurgy--that's how its spelled, GM --and the Metal Lake. I blame it on Utopia), but the point is, I have a firm belief that the mists are integral to the understanding of Allomancy.

Sazed says Allomancy first came out with the mists (see the Epilogue, MB1). In the prologue, it is heavily implied that the Lord Ruler could have found Allomancy at the Well of Ascension. Now, we know that Rashek held the Power, but that does not mean he couldn't have "found" Allomancy there as well.

The mists are the fundamental basis for the magic systems. The mists, prior to the Ascension, existed solely in the form of the Deepness, killing at Ruin's bidding to lead Alendi to the Well of Ascension so Ruin could be freed. There is no record of Allomancy pre-Ascension, but Feruchemy existed for certain. Possibly, Hemalurgy existed as well, pre-Ascension.

If you read The Mists topic, I say that if the Mists are foundational to the magic systems, and we find no evidence of mist-based magics (Allomancy and Hemalurgy) pre-Ascension. The Lord Ruler could have done something to the mists themselves to allow Allomancy and Hemalurgy to occur.