Poll

What

is
0 (0%)
your
0 (0%)
stance
0 (0%)
on
1 (9.1%)
abortion
0 (0%)
?
10 (90.9%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Author Topic: QUESTION  (Read 6545 times)

UtopiaGreen01

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 42
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
QUESTION
« on: September 06, 2008, 08:48:06 PM »
Well?

Miyabi

  • Level 45
  • *
  • Posts: 3098
  • Fell Points: 1
  • Simple is the concept of love as eternity.
    • View Profile
Re: QUESTION
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2008, 09:23:17 PM »
I think it is a disgustingly evil practice, but I feel that the government should not have the power to stop someone from doing it.
オレは長超猿庁じゃ〜。

Reaves

  • Level 23
  • *
  • Posts: 1226
  • Fell Points: 1
    • View Profile
Re: QUESTION
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2008, 09:56:34 PM »
I believe the taking of an innocent life at any age is evil. I completely believe that the government has the right and responsibility to treat it as murder.
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

Emillith

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 43
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
    • Joyful Light of the Stargarden
Re: QUESTION
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2008, 11:01:20 PM »
Well, I believe that once looked at from all angles, if it is deemed necessary based on multiple factors, it should be the woman's choice. If she is in a long term committed relationship then her partner should also have some weight in that choice. I don't think the government should have the right to tell me which consequence of my behaviour I should receive.

Miyabi

  • Level 45
  • *
  • Posts: 3098
  • Fell Points: 1
  • Simple is the concept of love as eternity.
    • View Profile
Re: QUESTION
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2008, 11:03:42 PM »
BTW did anyone else notice how absolutely unuseful that poll is?  You can't tell what ANYONE thinks from that pole.
オレは長超猿庁じゃ〜。

Emillith

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 43
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
    • Joyful Light of the Stargarden
Re: QUESTION
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2008, 11:16:29 PM »
Yes, I was amused by the poll. :)

CthulhuKefka

  • Level 15
  • *
  • Posts: 691
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
    • My Facebook
Re: QUESTION
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2008, 06:46:28 AM »
Well, in regards to abortion, that issue can be argued on both sides for a long time. The side of science can say one thing, while the side of religion says the other. I have nothing against religion, but it should not influence government. The whole thing boils down to a philosophical debate on when life actually begins. Is it life as a zygote? I'm not a scientist, I don't know these things lol.

Peter Ahlstrom

  • Administrator
  • Level 59
  • *****
  • Posts: 4902
  • Fell Points: 2
  • Assistant to Mr. Sanderson
    • View Profile
Re: QUESTION
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2008, 07:06:25 AM »
In Bujold's science fiction books they have uterine replicators that babies can be grown in if the mother chooses. They also have 100% effective mandatory birth control that women get installed when they have their first period and which they can turn off when they want children. (Or something like that.) With those two scientific advances, the "need" for abortion would be eliminated. I think scientists should be working on that.

As we are in today's world, though, I still think the deliberate killing of unborn children is wrong and should not be allowed. I also agree that the government has the right and responsibility not to allow it, and do not believe the constitution guarantees any right to it. But I'm not sure it should be treated as exactly the same thing as murder.

Being pregnant is extremely... Let's just say it's extreme. Until you spend all your nights and a good percentage of your days next to someone going through it, you don't have any idea what it's like. Even then, you won't truly know what it's like until you go through it yourself—and then your experience is not guaranteed to be the same as anyone else's.

It's not something anyone should go through without choosing it. But almost everyone does have a choice. If you're going to have sex, you already know pregnancy may result from it. Even if you use birth control, you need to be aware of the fact that sometimes birth control fails. Everyone has the choice not to have sex and not cause possible pregnancy. If you make the choice, you must accept responsibility for the results of that choice.

So then that leaves the people who really do have no choice: women who get raped. (Incest is legally included in that category.) What then? Should they be forced to make the enormous life-changing sacrifice of pregnancy, basically a punishment for a crime someone else committed? (As abortion is punishing the baby for someone else's irresponsible actions.)

I don't really know the answer to that. Those uterine replicators would really resolve a moral dilemma in that case though.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 07:08:29 AM by Ookla The Mok »
All Saiyuki fans should check out Dazzle! Emotionally wrenching action-adventure and quirky humor! (At least read chapter 6 and tell me if you're not hooked.) Volume 10 out now!

Miyabi

  • Level 45
  • *
  • Posts: 3098
  • Fell Points: 1
  • Simple is the concept of love as eternity.
    • View Profile
Re: QUESTION
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2008, 08:05:28 AM »
That MUST be one of the books Palin wants to ban.  She doesn't want us putting babies in tubes.  She'd say "It's too much like abortion!" ha ha. j/k
オレは長超猿庁じゃ〜。

Emillith

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 43
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
    • Joyful Light of the Stargarden
Re: QUESTION
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2008, 03:49:30 PM »
That is an interesting concept!  :D

I see abortion as not only punishing the "child" but also the mother. There is a lot of pain - emotional and physical - involved in getting an abortion. Plus there is the stigma now attached to her and something she must live with the rest of her life that colors all her relationships. By relationships I mean friends, family, etc not just romantic.

(The reason I put child in quotations is my own beliefs which I don't ask anyone else to believe. I don't do it to upset anyone.)

I do fully agree that most people should know that pregnancy can happen, even with using methods of contraception. I say most, because I'm not sure all teens who are active fully grasp this. But that is a whole other sad issue.

I personally do not feel that abortion should be looked at as a form of birth control - that mindset is intolerable to me.

Pink Bunkadoo

  • Level 7
  • ****
  • Posts: 214
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Ookla's sister
    • View Profile
    • Helena's webpage
Re: QUESTION
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2008, 06:45:37 PM »
I've wished for a uterine replicator more than once.   :D

I don't think abortion should be made illegal, but I just wish there were some way to get people to stop wanting to do it.    :(
~금강산도 식후경~

Emillith

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 43
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
    • Joyful Light of the Stargarden
Re: QUESTION
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2008, 01:39:03 AM »
Not everyone wants kids or are ready to have them, or ready to carry one to term for adoption. :\ And as already said in this thread, even being careful things can happen. :(

GreenMonsta

  • Level 22
  • *
  • Posts: 1156
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: QUESTION
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2008, 08:41:31 PM »
What about the morning after pill? Were does that stand on the morality scale. I mean If we don't actually know at what point a baby becomes a baby than cutting it off from life would be seen as immoral. Heck if you look at it that way using a condemn would be immoral as some religions do. I for one don't really know I find it a hard enough decision for someone to make for me to judge them either way about it. I have known those who have aborted births and those who have followed through with an un-expected pregnancy (every Irish person i know) its tough either way.

There are also times when the woman who becomes pregnant is not physically health enough to survive pregnancy. What do we do there. Sometime the people who engage in creating the pregnancy want it but cannot follow through due to risk. These are reasons I for one cant judge on.
"No signs of anything that could cause even a slight case of death"

"He's a paraplegic whats he gonna do, bite us?"

GorgonlaVacaTremendo

  • Level 29
  • *
  • Posts: 1641
  • Fell Points: 1
  • If we can teach a monkey to use a Rubic's Cube...
    • View Profile
    • Kinase Moves the Audio
Re: QUESTION
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2008, 07:13:34 PM »
There's a few points that never really came up here.  First of all, having mandatory birth control is as much of a trample on human rights as forcing somebody to quarter troops.  The point is we are to maintain human dignity.  Even if we KNOW we can help somebody, it is not our place to do so unless that person wants the help.  A policy of mandatory birth control at puberty is a disgusting oversight of human rights.

Secondly, abortions, no matter what your view on the morality of them, will occur anyway.  Abortions are like alcohol--anybody can make it happen in their basement.  Forcing persons who want abortions into back-alley situations would be about as successful as prohibition, and in outlawing abortions you are putting two lives at risk instead of one (if you already believe the unborn is considered a life).

And people assume that when a person gets an abortion, they had weighed the possible ramifications of sex before they had it.  A large portion of abortions are  received by kids who were too young to be legally having sex with each other, and certainly not old enough to be considered responsibly weighing such options.  Many are likely to not understand birth control doesn't always work.  In fact, many adults don't understand birth control does not always work.

In addition, while rare, sex isn't the only way to get pregnant.  Engaging in sexual behaviors, but not actually engaging in sex, is what a lot of persons suggest for couples who want to remain safe but romantically active.  However, in some cases sperm can penetrate from landing around the vagina, without the penis being inserted at all.

Finally, a personal view on something as controversial as abortion comes out in every argument.  But until at least 90% of a population can agree on a topic about ability to choose, should personal views of even 60-70% of a population affect the rights of an entire population?  Remember, back in the heyday of slavery, it was considered not only moral but a favor to the otherwise doomed negro race.  Now we know such a concept was ridiculous, even though it was held by a majority of the American population.

Which just goes to show, the majority is not always right.  Isn't it safer to allow a choice on any subject that is not seen as immoral by all of the persons it affects, or at least a hugely significant majority?
"Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other 'sins' are invented nonsense."
Robert Heinlein

"Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."
Edmund Burke

www.kinasemovestheaudio.com for a good time!

GreenMonsta

  • Level 22
  • *
  • Posts: 1156
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: QUESTION
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2008, 07:18:25 PM »
Well put
"No signs of anything that could cause even a slight case of death"

"He's a paraplegic whats he gonna do, bite us?"