ALCATRAZ und das Pergament des Todes

[VegasDev]

I for one dont speak any other languages and I couldnt tell you the literacy rate and I find it amusing. You have to love those of us who like VegasDev just like to prod the situation without becoming overly involved. I realy do like it and I wish I had done so here I just found myself on a tangent.

Little ole me? lol.

I wouldn't call it prodding, just trying to bring more definition to the discussion. I find that many take their x for granted, preferring to view someone else's x as greener pastures. Some of my friends have complained about things like US healthcare, etc. but have never set foot outside the country let alone visit a foreign hospital.

I spent 10 years as a consultant programmer when I graduated from college and had the opportunity to experience what life had to offer in other countries. I'm not talking about a 2 week hotel trip, I'm talking 6 months to a year apartment rentals. All I need for proof is the countless women throwing themselves at me in hopes of making it to the US rather than at a hunk of man co-consultant Jean Luc (I called him Picard but he didn't know what it meant and why it was funny).

BTW, nice repertoire SarahG. Any particular reason you chose those to learn?

[SarahG]

I wouldn't call it prodding, just trying to bring more definition to the discussion. I find that many take their x for granted, preferring to view someone else's x as greener pastures. Some of my friends have complained about things like US healthcare, etc. but have never set foot outside the country let alone visit a foreign hospital.

Exactly!  Or people who complain about the US Postal Service who have never waited 3 months in a village for a letter or package to arrive, and when (if) it does it's been opened and half the contents stolen.  Or complain about construction on the highways, not realizing how few countries have anything close to our interstate system, and never having lived in a city where all streets are often closed for hours or days with no warning, at the whim of the mayor.

All I need for proof is the countless women throwing themselves at me in hopes of making it to the US.

Ditto.  When I lived in Africa, I received innumerable proposals from strangers, often yelled at the truck as we were driving through the village, "You my wife!"  I do not flatter myself they were instantly enamored with my looks - they just liked my passport.

BTW, nice repertoire SarahG. Any particular reason you chose those to learn?

Lingala and French - growing up in Africa.  Bahasa and Cebuano - practice languages in linguistics school.  Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic - for my master's degree in Biblical Languages.  (At that time, I planned to be a Bible translator.)

[neiana]

It seems you lovelies have misinterpreted my post.  I am not an English hater (I did not say so) nor am I an America hater (I did not say so).

All I said was in response to SarahG's knee-jerk "WELL ENGLISH IS AWESOME YO!" reply.  That was-I'm hoping, now that I see her list of studies- simply a mistake.  Perhaps a bit overboard?  I don't know how to explain what I'm hoping from that post...I guess I'm just hoping it wasn't well thought out.

I have my own thoughts on miyabi's statement.  He finds Japanese to be quite amazing.  Someone else mentioned Japanese winning simply because it's "cool".  My personal opinion is that most people who find Japanese "cool" are people who are part of the mass of American teens that only care about Japanese because it's cool.  I'm not putting anyone into this box, of course, I'm saying it's a pretty common thing to happen.

I also note that a lot of people who just love Japanese also just hate English.

I've been taking English-specific courses as long as I can remember.  I've been writing and reading as long as I can remember.  There's a lot to English and when you know how to use the tools it can be a beautiful thing - but woefully few people know how to use these tools.

We are on a subforum here dedicated to Brandon Sanderson, an English-writing author who knows how to use the tools.  It seems most of us are capable to understand this type of thing but how many of us can produce anything on the same level?  Not me and I've been writing for twenty years.

I think people need to learn their home language with fluency, whether that be Mandarin, English, French or some obscure and dying dialect of a long-forgotten language, prior to focusing more attention on a second or third.

My comment about America was, if you couldn't figure it out (sorry), supposed to be the fact it was originally bad analogy (my apologies for harshness).  It was like the pot calling the kettle black when in reality the kettle is more of an ivory color.  SarahG said people who hate America but have never been here .... whereas miyabi and myself quite obviously know English and have preference otherwise.

I'm still taking English Lit courses and I still intend an English degree.  It's not that I hate it or have a problem with it.  I know the uses and there are days when I'm quite profound with it.  The large palette of words with which to draw make for interesting art, but it's not aesthetically pleasing to the eye nor the ear.

There is no perfect language but to nearly deride one for their preference is pretty failing in my opinion.

to GreenMonsta:  Pointing out flaws in an argument, as I could have done without the harsh anti-everything tone, doesn't always work.  If I said only one thing, she could have replied with one thing that cancels out my statement and we'd continue.  If I just bluntly state a lot of issues at once then the other person has to either reply to them all, pick one or two, or ignore it completely.  It gets more information out quicker for rebuttal.  Strangely, it appears that now I'm the one providing equal positive thinking for English as I provided negative thinking.

[Reaves]

Alright yes, I will admit my post is rather simplistic. However I quite admire the Japanese, I find their culture to be very interesting and fascinating. Their ideas of art, honor, duty, family life, responsiblity...all of it is very alien to our own Western culture. (For most of us at least, it looks like I may be wrong in assuming most of us come from a Western upbringing) I am also interested in historical Japan, specifically 1000-1800's Japan. (although I really don't know much about it-yet)

[Miyabi]

I'm not a self loather, I just don't like the language I was raised to speak.  Even having grown up speaking it there are many of it's more delicate intricacies that I don't understand.  As far as the country, I just feel that we have totally strayed from what the original founders intended for the government to be.

[neiana]

As far as the country, I just feel that we have totally strayed from what the original founders intended for the government to be.

That's a strange statement considering what very little I know of you doesn't exactly interact very well with exactly what the founding fathers believed and intended for their Nation to be...

[Miyabi]

Ha ha.  Too true.  But I think the government has been given/taken more power than they were supposed to have.  ((We should make a topic for this discussion somewhere maybe. I dunno))

[SarahG]

It seems you lovelies have misinterpreted my post.

I believe you've misinterpreted mine as well, but I'll continue that discussion in a PM, since we've gone off-topic quite long enough.

[happyman]

Good grief.  How to the native speakers learn this stuff?

I am not sure if this was meant to be sarcastic or what, but if you're really asking then it's really a lot easier than English.

In English you basically learn a completely different set of vocabulary - a whole sub language - to speak with your boss.  A different one for friends and a different one for family.  Also, there is the language for typing on the internet in a chat room and the language of writing on message boards.  Sometimes one of these will overlap another, sometimes it will not.  For a foreigner to learn the various formalities of English, I believe, it is very difficult when compared to the formalities in Korean & Japanese.

For Korean & Japanese it's pretty simple: change conjugation of the verb.  That's the only thing that needs to be done differently to indicate who you are talking to and the relationship between them.

If you want to start getting crazy, let's discuss words relating to various parts of the family in any east Asian language.

It was sort of sarcastic and sort of a real question.  But now that I know the answer, I must say thank you for telling me.  Yeah, that does sound easier than English.  The thing is, you never actually think about your native language until you're forced to.

[Miyabi]

Livemocha is AMAZING!

[VegasDev]

Livemocha is AMAZING!

Agreed. Is it out of beta phase yet, ie. charging?

[Miyabi]

Livemocha is AMAZING!

Agreed. Is it out of beta phase yet, ie. charging?

Nope, it's still beta.