Author Topic: WoT Read-Through by Brandon  (Read 7472 times)

MPlease

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Re: WoT Read-Through by Brandon
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2008, 05:12:12 AM »
Heh, that's hilarious. Annoying for you, and you have my condolences, but still slightly hilarious in an 11pm sort of way.  I got annoyed by the lack of movement in the plot a while back and haven't read the last couple of books. Once MoL comes out then I'll go back and read them all in order to catch up, but I've got more than enough to read to keep me entertained until then. 
English doesn't borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.

DarkCain11

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Re: WoT Read-Through by Brandon
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2008, 07:30:00 PM »
My favorite charaters goes as follows

1. Mat
2.Toun
3.Perrin
4.Rand
5.Morrinae

Fred

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Posts + CROWN OF SWORDS
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2008, 07:44:11 AM »
Here's something I found very interesting with Brandon Sanderson's latest blog post. I'm being a critic here by the way.

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One of the things I went into this series wondering was if I could pick out why some readers grew frustrated with the series around books seven and eight.  I went into this book during this particular read-through expecting it to be one of the weaker ones in the series, and yet, I found it to be one of my favorites.

Well, I'll admit Crown of Swords wasn't the worst of them...

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Part of me wonders if this character progression, which I find marvelously done, is part of what drove readers to complain about these later books.  If that is the case, then they are missing one of the great aspects of the series, in my opinion.  Rand is particularly heroic in how he faces so many difficult challenges, being beaten up physically and mentally, yet continues on despite it and even retains a large measure of his inner nobility. 

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I point as a counterweight to these complaints that when you CAN read the entire series straight through, the viewpoints work so well together that the books become an even greater masterpiece.  The story is so complex and interconnected that you can often get your payoffs chapters and chapters away from the places where they are introduced.  But they're all the more sweet for the complexity and delicate touch.

Subjective. When you read the series straight through, you can really tell that the plot is stretched and filled with fat that needs to be cut. If ther ewas a biggest loser for books, Wheel of Time would definitely be on there. A ruthless red pen would cut down the series to an acceptable level - namely five or six books max. Then we can consider calling the series a "masterpiece".  Oh, the story is so complex that most readers get confused at who is who. It's rather tedious.



Well, in the later books the character progression slows down the plot progression which is actually the most important aspect in writing an outstanding, structured book. Without a good, fast-paced plot, the characterization is virtually useless, and just drags the books quality down. Heck, I'm 16 and I think I know more about structuring a good plot/characterization that some professional authors...

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I object to complaints about pacing.  I thing the pacing across the series has been even, and I certainly didn't find this book to be any slower than previous volumes.  However, perhaps that's because I'm able to read these all through without any wait in-between.  One thing that is happening is that as the series grows longer, the viewpoints per character grow less and less frequent.  There are enough main characters with important plots that we can't spend an entire book focusing on just two or three of them like we did during the early books.

I did. It can get extremely tedious reading a lengthy scene where nothing much happens except this character talks to that one, and they have dinner together. Nothing happens. It doesn't help construct a good plot. Instead it portrays a book that could have been devised by some teenager who wants to experiment with writing and doesn't really know how to build a structured, fast-paced plot. In other words, its his "first attempt".

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This series, as I've said before, is meant to be read straight through.  I think, perhaps, that waiting two years for this book and then only getting a tiny slice of the overall story might be what caused complaints from readers.  It's not that the writing quality went down (I think it goes up as the series continues) or that the pacing grew slower.  I think that the problem is readers not grasping the entire vision of the story, which is difficult to do when you don't know how many books there will be or how long it will be until they are done.

Nope. I'm reading Eye of the World to Knife of Dreams straight through. It's nothing to do with the wait inbetween each book for the majority of readers. It's the unstructured plot that really irritates readers. Take Crossroads of Twilight for example: The whole book could have been scrapped and it wouldn't affect the rest of the series. In fact, it would have been for the better. In Crossroads, the plot virtually...stopped...Basically the plot jumps from Winter's Heart to Knife of Dreams. Crossroads is a beautiful example of how NOT to write a structured plot. In fact, out of the whole fantasy genre, I think it holds the Number One Seat for how NOT to write a book. Path of Daggers and Winters Heart, and maybe Crown of Swords follows closely behind it. At least in Winter's Heart there was some sort of resolution at the end. Crossroads basically contained none of the required elements of a novel. It's the pacing that really irks readers.

As Eye of the World truly was a masterpiece, I think it will be remembered as a book that left threads for a potential master series and a turnpoint in the fantasy genre. Wheel of Time will be remembered as the series that could have outdone Tolkien and held the High Seat of all fantasy. Unfortunately, the books were streched to breaking point and as a result, this can never be now.





« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 04:25:06 PM by Nessa »

darxbane

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Re: Posts + CROWN OF SWORDS
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2008, 02:46:46 PM »
I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree more, and you obviously have no idea what good writing looks like.  RJ took a genre that generally only focuses on the heroes and expanded to show the viewpoints, struggles, and triumphs of an entire world, where good and bad are not always so cut and dry.  With Lord of the Rings (which I love, by the way), there is no real question on who is good and who is bad.  The closest you get is Saruman, which you find out is evil almost as soon as you learn of his character.  I felt that the Wheel of Time has only gotten better with each book.  Unfortunately, in today's society, most people don't have the patience and/or attention span to wait more than 5 minutes for a payoff.  Everything written in that book, no matter how mundane it may seem, has weight in the story.  I will refrain from flaming you too much, because your still a kid, but you really need to look a little bit more closely at the detail of this book, and also consider why there are millions of people around the world who completely disagree with you, some of whom I am sure will post here when they read this.
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Nessa

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Re: Posts + CROWN OF SWORDS
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2008, 09:20:22 PM »
...in the later books the character progression slows down the plot progression which is actually the most important aspect in writing an outstanding, structured book. Without a good, fast-paced plot, the characterization is virtually useless, and just drags the books quality down. ...

Um. No. This is a blanket statement that is easily refuted. You can have an award-winning book like le Guin's "The Left Hand of Darkness" that has no plot to speak of, but the characterization and setting are amazing. There can be no point to a character's actions and still have excellect characterization.

There is no single 'most important aspect in writing' IMHO, there are several. There are authors who are strong in some things and not in others (ie Brandon is great with plot, Jordan is great with world building, Bujold is great with characterization), but there is no end-all explanation of what makes a story great.

It is rare the author who can do all three equally great.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 10:39:36 PM by Nessa »
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rjl

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Re: WoT Read-Through by Brandon
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2008, 08:14:16 PM »
I personally thought that book 10 was slow, but I thought that the rest of the series is great.

WriterDan

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Re: WoT Read-Through by Brandon
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2008, 08:12:40 PM »
I've read Wot books 1-6 twice, and 7-11 once through.  At times in some of the later books, I have to admit that had the feeling I would have liked the plot to move a little bit more.  Now, reading Brandon's comments about his experience in reading 7&8, I think that they deserve another chance, and am planning on re-reading 1-11 in preparation for the big bang of MoL next year.  And I have to admit that I'm really looking forward to the experience, despite my first impressions of the books after reading them in time with their release dates.  I have enjoyed the experience of the Wheel of Time immensely, and am excited to see its completion.  In addition, I find it humorous that anyone can say "the single most important part of writing is..." and then state their opinion as fact.    That's like saying the most important part of an elephant is the ear.  As it is, no matter what you read or what you write, there will always be critics (or mock-critics, in some instances) who think that they know better.
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Green_Valkyrie

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Re: WoT Read-Through by Brandon
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2008, 06:52:46 AM »
Nice, I like Nynaeve as well all though my all time fav is Moiraine. And yes she is comming back for sure, I swear on the oath rod. Just not sure if Olver or Jaim will be involed in her rescue. Will you include "New Spring" in the read-through? It answers a lot of plot questions, plus it gives a nice background on Lan, Moiraine and Siuan (who were "pillow friends" OMG!) Though since she's been missing for sooo long that I'm torn between Gareth Byrne and Rodel Ituralde as my new fav.

Geez I think I've read the books over about 20 times now. My husband forced WOT on me five years ago (I was a devout non-reader ever since the first grown-up book I read was Stephen Kings "Gerald's Game" .. bleh horrid book) I loved WOT so much I didn't dare pick up anything else to read to ruin my enthusiasm for the written word. I even started to catalog all the characters however minor in a searchable database so I could find new clues about the ending.

Well my husband was determined to find out the writing style of the author who was going to take over WOT's last book and so picked up "Elantris", "Mistborn" and "Wells o' Ascension". (Actually he really didn't need a reason to buy 3 more books, the man needs excuses to read like an irishman needs and excuse to drink) And so with a renewed eagerness to read I've finished Elantris and am starting Mistborn. Both of which I have enjoyed! It's interesting to note how many people you thank for helping you conceptualize Mistborn. I don't think putting yourself in the writing mindset of Jordan will be hard for you. I am also looking forward to reading more of your books! Make sure your next series will be longer than 3 books so I can have a bit more to re-read, over-analyze and disect. You are an amazing talent, you're invention of the magic system has broken the predictable and crusty old forms reminiscent of d&d.

A pre-emptive Happy St.Patty's Day to you...this occasion calls for a beer!  :D ;)
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pengwenn

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Re: WoT Read-Through by Brandon
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2008, 10:18:33 PM »
I'm curious if anyone's read (or is Brandon going to read) the companion book to the WoT series The World of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time?  I can't remember when it came out so I don't know how far along the plot and characters were in the series when it was published. 

readerMom

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Re: WoT Read-Through by Brandon
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2008, 01:07:42 AM »
I read it a while ago.  I remember I didn't like it much.  I think the artist was the same one who does the covers, so the additional art wasn't great.  It was also published fairly early in the series, so now it would seem incomplete.

darxbane

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Re: WoT Read-Through by Brandon
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2008, 07:38:26 PM »
I think RJ's personal notes and outlines would provide far more depth than "The Great White Book" would.  Not only would they be more complete, but they contain the spoilers and story-arc endings.   
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Whitefire

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Re: WoT Read-Through by Brandon
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2008, 09:43:42 PM »
Quote
It's the pacing that really irks readers.

Yes, I agree. I love Wot, read it many times - all the books - and i agree. RJ got his fans used to fast pace in the first books. Action. Suspense. Twists. More action. But it changes in books 7-10. And it is a problem. I can enjoy long descriptions, but having too many of them and actually going back in time to show another viewpoint in a later book is something that didn't help the series. In my opinion. It pains me to say it about my favourite series, but I think the truth is better.




Vintage

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Re: WoT Read-Through by Brandon
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2008, 01:29:03 AM »
Poor Fred ! I guess you must be tired or something. I know RJs people so well, I never mistake one or the other. When I read, I'm so immersed, no one can even talk to me. I live the story through the actors. How could I ever mistake them !!!!

I have to admit that volume 10 was a bit hard. Not because of the long descriptions (I just love long descriptions), but simply because I got fed up with Perrin's obsession with Faile. I dont even have a proper word to describe my feeling. Well... one of the thing Brandon and RJ have in common, it is certainly to spread hints throughout their books without you noticing at first. It's only at the second read that you can really start enjoying.

darxbane

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Re: WoT Read-Through by Brandon
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2008, 10:17:47 PM »
Perrin's obsession with Faille is very important to the story.  He very nearly crosses the line between what is right and what he wants.  He throws his axe away because of it.  Besides,  she is the only family he has left.  I think people tend to forget that his entire family was murdered because of his part in the prophecy.  Most of us would hold on a little too tightly as well, I imagine.
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.