Kandra of Preservation?

[Wigginns]

Kandra are the most interesting people to me in MB.  When Vin and the Kandra are talking about the Kandras religion the kandra says something about the kandra taking over the world and humans being of Ruin and kandra of Preservation.  So if we are assuming that Preservation is good, does that make the Kandra good as well?  Or is this just another twisted profecy escewed by Ruin? 

Also if Kandra are of Preservation wouldn't that conflict with the fact that The Lord Ruler "created" the Kandra using the power at the WoA (presumably Ruin)?

[Andrew the Great]

I've wondered about this myself. It would be very helpful if someone could supply the exact location of the quote in question. I'll look, but no guarantees....

I would like to once again state that I am decently sure that Preservation is not good, but is simply the embodiment of order. This may be good most of the time, but it could theoretically also be bad (a tyrannical dictator who has thousands of skaa killed would be supported by preservation, which in itself implies resistance to change).

Basically, I have always assumed one of two things here. Either A) the Lord Ruler didn't actually create the kandra, he just found the way to control them, or B) the kandra are misinformed about their origins, and believe they are of preservation but are actually of Ruin. Either one works, it just depends on the slant you want to take.

[Vintage]

It could very well be that TLR did not create the Kandra, no more than Mistwraight... and I have doubts about Mistings and Mistborn as well. Actually, the only thing we know has come through the Steel Ministry which, as everyone knows, manipulated the truth. This said, it doesn't void your second choice either.

I understand that Preservation is order and life, rather than Ruin which is chaos and death. But I just cant seem to find any evidence (i.e. quote) which would confirm that TLR created the Kandra.

[Chaos]

There is a point where TenSoon says the Lord Ruler created the kandra, right where he says kandra are of Preservation. I distinctly remember the occaison, because it's really where the Ruin and Preservation thread really kicked off. It is around the time of page 299, Well of Ascension (which I got by looking in R/P topic. My WoA copy isn't with me, so I'll have to go on that and hope it's right).

I actually believe the kandra have one of the more clear, unobstructed view of the world from the Lord Ruler. They have been separated from the world so long since they were hunted, they have their own religion which was not absorbed by the Ministry. They also have a knowledge of Ruin and Preservation--evidenced by that small quote by TenSoon--which has been very hidden, if not unknown, by the Ministry.

For that reason, I trust what the kandras say far more than anyone else, really.

[AvalonDreamer]

Well, bringing up the falseness of their origins, it is possible that the Kandra are just an enhanced form of Mistwraiths, and that TLR made those changes while he had the power of control from the Well still. I think you wrongly classify them as being good or evil, but as we've been talking about in the Ruin and Preservation thread lately, they don't seem so good v. evil, as Axiomatic v. Chaotic. In a lot of respects the Kandra seem neutral on a good - evil spectrum, as they seem to be reluctant to interfere unless forced to, yet they stringently hold to their agreements and laws, which indicates that they are of Preservation, to me anyways.

[Andrew the Great]

I read that page chaos, and TenSoon says Kandra are of preservation, but not that they were created by the Lord Ruler. This points more to the first point I gave.

However, I would also point out that the kandra believe humans are of ruin, and see themselves as opposite. They believe that humans will destroy the world as well, which could very well be the basis for this belief. I see this as possibly being hopeful kandra analysis of facts that they have. It may just be the general kandra feeling.

So, I stand by my two ideas, either the lord ruler did not create kandra, or they are not of preservation and are misinformed.

[AvalonDreamer]

Don't they call him their Father? I could have sworn that came up somewhere in the vicinity of when Vin and TenSoon were talking about Kandra religion... And I don't think they're misinformed, either, as their nature as creatures is about preservation. They consume a body and take on all of it's mannerisms, thus preserving the person, in some sick sick sense. They may not being working for it though, if thats what you mean, but I doubt that they are consciously working for either force, kind of Lawful/Neutral, really.

[Chaos]

Don't they call him their Father? I could have sworn that came up somewhere in the vicinity of when Vin and TenSoon were talking about Kandra religion...

My bad, Andrew. As I said, I don't have my Well of Ascension copy with me, so I just picked that page number and hoped it was all in the same thing.

But, I know there was that discussion. I just need to find it...

[darxbane]

I wish I could remember where the book tells us of the Kandra's origins, but it definitely does say somewhere that the Koloss and Kandra are both created by TLR.  They both have the same weakness that TLR built in to control them, as well.  As for whether they are of Ruin or Preservation, I agree that they are most likely deluding themselves.  Like many belief systems, there needs to be some reward for the believer's suffering.  Believing that they will one day inherit the world gives them a reason to continue serving the very people they despise.  It's like Karma, in a way.

[Andrew the Great]

For the first part of your post, Darxbane, i believe that it was mentioned somewhere as well, I just don't recall if it actually comes from a kandra or not.

As for the second part, I agree, the kandra are most likely deluding themselves in some way to make themselves feel better.

[SarahG]

I agree, the kandra are most likely deluding themselves in some way to make themselves feel better.

This would go along with Sanderson's desire not to follow the usual convention of all announced prophesy being fulfilled.  It would also fit with the theme of all religions, knowledge, and history being corrupted and unreliable.  I hope this is the case, because I wouldn't want to see the series end with all humanity exterminated and kandra ruling the earth.  I like TenSoon, but not enough to kill off all the other great characters.

[darxbane]

Wouldn't that be weird.  Everyone dies, and the Kandra absorb their bones, and it appears that everyone is still alive? 

[SarahG]

Well, it certainly would provide an ending like no other I've seen.

[AvalonDreamer]

I wouldn't put it past Brandon... He seems to have a knack for those kind of insanely twisted "you-never-saw-it-coming" endings.

Assuming that every creature in TFE (as a world) is either of Ruin or Preservation, then Kandra would be of Preservation, just by the nature of what they do. They Preserve the existence (and body) of the deceased, as well as holding VERY strictly to their race's rules and an agreement with a man who is dead. Doesn't that scream Preservation?

You know, every time I think of a Kandra's true form, I get a mental image that looks like the Lich from WarCraft 3.... I know I'm insane, but I figured I'd throw that out there...