Author Topic: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread  (Read 97622 times)

Reaves

  • Level 23
  • *
  • Posts: 1226
  • Fell Points: 1
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #420 on: July 24, 2008, 04:33:29 PM »
Do we know of  any reason the Inquisitors would especially want Marsh in their ranks? That always seemed kind of rushed to me, they didn't really do a thorough backround check or anything like that just grabbed him, inadvertently allowing him to infiltrate them. Now we see that even his full induction was rushed; they didn't even bother to bring him back to Kredik Shaw, just used what was there.
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

Miyabi

  • Level 45
  • *
  • Posts: 3098
  • Fell Points: 1
  • Simple is the concept of love as eternity.
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #421 on: July 24, 2008, 04:50:06 PM »
Do we know of  any reason the Inquisitors would especially want Marsh in their ranks? That always seemed kind of rushed to me, they didn't really do a thorough backround check or anything like that just grabbed him, inadvertently allowing him to infiltrate them. Now we see that even his full induction was rushed; they didn't even bother to bring him back to Kredik Shaw, just used what was there.
They say he was a good actor and good at what he did.  He could simply have been such an amazing prospect they didn't care about his background or care to wait for him.
オレは長超猿庁じゃ〜。

SarahG

  • Level 13
  • *
  • Posts: 544
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #422 on: July 24, 2008, 04:51:38 PM »
Do we know of  any reason the Inquisitors would especially want Marsh in their ranks? That always seemed kind of rushed to me, they didn't really do a thorough backround check or anything like that just grabbed him, inadvertently allowing him to infiltrate them. Now we see that even his full induction was rushed; they didn't even bother to bring him back to Kredik Shaw, just used what was there.
They say he was a good actor and good at what he did.  He could simply have been such an amazing prospect they didn't care about his background or care to wait for him.

Or maybe it was another of Ruin's plots...
He ate my horse.

Miyabi

  • Level 45
  • *
  • Posts: 3098
  • Fell Points: 1
  • Simple is the concept of love as eternity.
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #423 on: July 24, 2008, 05:32:29 PM »
Do we know of  any reason the Inquisitors would especially want Marsh in their ranks? That always seemed kind of rushed to me, they didn't really do a thorough backround check or anything like that just grabbed him, inadvertently allowing him to infiltrate them. Now we see that even his full induction was rushed; they didn't even bother to bring him back to Kredik Shaw, just used what was there.
They say he was a good actor and good at what he did.  He could simply have been such an amazing prospect they didn't care about his background or care to wait for him.

Or maybe it was another of Ruin's plots...
Potentially, but don't you think that Ruin would have seen that Marsh would have had a lot of resistance against him before making him into an inquisitor?  Wouldn't he just want to kill Marsh?  Or was that what makes him desire to control Marsh?
オレは長超猿庁じゃ〜。

SarahG

  • Level 13
  • *
  • Posts: 544
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #424 on: July 24, 2008, 05:45:37 PM »
Potentially, but don't you think that Ruin would have seen that Marsh would have had a lot of resistance against him before making him into an inquisitor?  Wouldn't he just want to kill Marsh?  Or was that what makes him desire to control Marsh?

Well, once he did get control of Marsh, he had a tool that the opposition trusted (at least for awhile).  It's like turning a spy.
He ate my horse.

Miyabi

  • Level 45
  • *
  • Posts: 3098
  • Fell Points: 1
  • Simple is the concept of love as eternity.
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #425 on: July 24, 2008, 05:50:22 PM »
Potentially, but don't you think that Ruin would have seen that Marsh would have had a lot of resistance against him before making him into an inquisitor?  Wouldn't he just want to kill Marsh?  Or was that what makes him desire to control Marsh?

Well, once he did get control of Marsh, he had a tool that the opposition trusted (at least for awhile).  It's like turning a spy.
Yes, but my only concern is why would you take on something that could resist you and potentially pose a threat to you?  Is Ruin REALLY that desperate for some kind of attachment to the physical world?  If that is the case then my earlier theory about the thing Ruin needing being some way to gain a physical form would again have more substantiated proof here.
オレは長超猿庁じゃ〜。

GreenMonsta

  • Level 22
  • *
  • Posts: 1156
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #426 on: July 24, 2008, 07:11:15 PM »
i dont think Ruin would view it that way. he seems to have control over alot of what happens in this world. to maintain his goal he would have to think like a leader and make calculated risks. ok so Marsh gave the goodguys the way to kill the inquisitors, boo hoo. Ruin just made a bunch more inquisitors so that it wouldnt matter if they knew how to kill them they would still have to accomplish it. Ruin had plenty to gain from the situation and how much could he really loose. he could gain limitless info on the person who would release him and their team of supporters. he didnt care about luthandel or the armies or anything, exepct for Vin. all he wanted was for her to make it to the well and that wouldnt have happened with the Lord Ruler in power. so Ruin allowed Marsh to become an inquisitor therfore helping to over throw the Lord Ruler and gaining access to the WoA. after Vin entered the WoA tunnels he turned Marsh and attempted to stop Sazed from getting to Vin. it seems that Ruin used Marsh in the best way available.
"No signs of anything that could cause even a slight case of death"

"He's a paraplegic whats he gonna do, bite us?"

Comatose

  • Level 19
  • *
  • Posts: 904
  • Fell Points: 1
  • A Shard of Adonalsium
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #427 on: July 28, 2008, 08:57:15 PM »
Maybe the inquisitors wanted Marsh because he was a seeker, it hints that inquisitors are seekers before they become inquisitors, and them picking marsh certainly suggests this.  He would be the perfect candidate really, extremely dedicated and hard working, and a seeker to boot!
"Look, I'm just trying to change the world, okay?  I don't have time for a grudge match with every poser in a parka!"
- Dr. Horrible

"There's always another secret..."
- Kelsier

Reaves

  • Level 23
  • *
  • Posts: 1226
  • Fell Points: 1
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #428 on: July 28, 2008, 09:23:55 PM »
Maybe the inquisitors wanted Marsh because he was a seeker, it hints that inquisitors are seekers before they become inquisitors, and them picking marsh certainly suggests this.  He would be the perfect candidate really, extremely dedicated and hard working, and a seeker to boot!

i am pretty sure this was just a coincidence. All the inquisitors Kelsier knew had been seekers, but seriously. There are only twenty. How many could he have known...
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

GreenMonsta

  • Level 22
  • *
  • Posts: 1156
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #429 on: July 29, 2008, 01:03:10 AM »
thats a valid point, you also have to look at things now. Marsh mayhave been looked at by the inquisitors because he was a seeker but it probably wasnt necessary. it was kinda like the sweet feature that caught your eye in that new purchase. it wasnt needed but it helped. i mean there have obviously been some inquisitor movements and signs of  more inquisitors being created so i dought it was the decidingly necessary factor.
"No signs of anything that could cause even a slight case of death"

"He's a paraplegic whats he gonna do, bite us?"

Time and Again

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #430 on: July 30, 2008, 02:40:50 AM »
Have we decided if being able to burn a metal via allomancy allows you to be extra powerful when combined with hermguraly(sp?) or if hermguraly(misspelled) itself is just that powerful? If so then Marsh should have seen an ability not unlike Vins for piercing coppercoulds. Or as previously stated all inquisitors have the power and therefore it doesnt matter.

I feel that the spikes hold a key to the power shown in inquisitors. The two in the eyes I'm sure are Steel as they are called steel inquisitors and I believe as I"m sure most of us do, they see with steel lines of an allomancer burning steel. That brings the grand total of unknown spikes to 9 (as they start with 11). I'm sure they use 7 of those are connected via the last 7 basic metals. Another (if we follow this line of thought) would be atium, making a dead inquisitor worth some money. That leaves one. Which one is it though. Gold; useless. Aluminum; useless. Durilumium; could be useless if the power of "Blood Allomancey" is to be as good as expected they wouldn't needed. So what is it? Don't we still have two unknown metals. Gold's offbrand along with atiums.

All of the above could just be repeated, as I've been away from forums for awhile. If so just ignore it.

Czanos

  • Level 7
  • ****
  • Posts: 248
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #431 on: July 30, 2008, 08:54:54 AM »
I believe that the most widely accepted version of events is that Inquisitors use Allomancy, (Proven in the Hero of Ages Prologue) and that their Allomancy is either just naturally very potent (Perhaps because they consumed the metal at the end of Well of Ascension.) or that using Hemalurgy somehow has the power to enhance Allomancy.

The spikes are also definitely something to do with an Inquisitor's Hemalurgy, and most believe that a piercing of any kind can be used Hemalurgically, if the right conditions are met. As for the spikes, the two eye spikes are indeed made of steel, and the one in the heart is made of brass. (Zane also had a spike through his heart, but I don't know what it was made out of. I'd assume it was made of brass as well, but the book never says . . . ) Then the spike in the spine is made of steel, (as per the end of The Final Empire.) so the unknown spikes in an inquisitor are down to seven.

As for myself, I'd believe that the spike setup is two steel spikes through the eyes, one steel spike in the spine, and one of each of the basic Allomantic metals for the chest. The next question I have though, is why separating the top spikes from the bottom spikes kills an Inquisitor. We know from Zane that one can survive with just one spike through the heart, and I'm inclined to believe that the Inquisitor on the receiving end of the Hemalurgic ritual in the prologue of Hero of Ages had eye spikes, if just because of the wording. What is so important about that final spike?

Oh, and as a side note, I'm pretty sure Zane shows us it's possible to use Hemalurgy without knowing it, but that could just be because he's a little addled.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 06:36:55 PM by Czanos »
I came because I heard stories, tales of a lengendary man.
A man who was known as the Lord of the Mists, a man they named Survivor.
A man called Hope.

SarahG

  • Level 13
  • *
  • Posts: 544
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #432 on: July 30, 2008, 07:01:29 PM »
Oh, and as a side note, I'm pretty sure Zane shows us it's possible to use Hemalurgy without knowing it, but that could just be because he's a little addled.

Well, he THINKS he's addled, anyway.  God tells him right before he dies that he never was insane.
He ate my horse.

Reaves

  • Level 23
  • *
  • Posts: 1226
  • Fell Points: 1
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #433 on: July 30, 2008, 07:16:10 PM »
oh im pretty sure he is addled. He has scars all over his arms, he has a voice in his head. He thinks he is crazy.
That probably drove him mad years ago.
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

Time and Again

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #434 on: July 31, 2008, 02:52:18 AM »
I'm sure with Ruin in his head, it was easy to do some Blood Allomancey, as it seems that all allomancey in some way comes back to him. I'm sure Ruin knows every last secret there is to know about all metal based magic. I'm also sure with that little descretion in his past it would be easy for Zane to block it out or have Ruin not let him remember it (I'm not sure how much control he has over the people who's head he's in). I always thought that the spike with which you were impaled for the Hemalurgy Ritual enhanced your ability with that metal. Which would explain the power in all inquisitors and Vin's coppercloud piercing ability. This same theory led me to believe the spike in Zane was steel as he should increadable control with that metal.

Also I know we are not sure how Ruin is speaking in people's heads but we know it does have somthing to do with Hemalurgy. I assume it was the piercings, the bits of metal in people's bodies. But this doesn't explain why Ruin seems to have full control over the inquisitors, but not Vin or Zane. The only difference in these cases are the amount of metal used in the Hemalurgy process. The inquisitors have 11 spikes each about 14 cubic inchs (3in diameter cone about 6in long = about 14 cubic inches). That's alot of metal. Zane seemed to have a spear tip in his chest, leaving nubs on both sides. I didn't bother to figure that up but with about a half inch diameter with another 6in for length leaves you with about 1.5 cubic inches in his body. So that seems to be enough to talk in some one's head, but with vin you just have 1/8 inch of a earing which has about the diameter of a pin.. hardly anything. Would that be enough to have any conection? Could Ruin see inside Vin's head? Influence her emotions? Or can Vin possiably see inside his/it/her? Could she turn the tables back if possiable? use her ever so slight connection to gain an advantage for her eventual battle with Ruin?

This is all speculation though..