The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread

[Miyabi]

A little bit more into theory here.

Note : This also supports my earlier theory that the Inquisitors are NOT burning duralumin.

Also : I know that some of this is mentioned before, I'm just saying it to put it all together into one post.

So we see that Vin can use BRONZE to pierce through copper clouds.  We know that her mother PIERCED her with the BRONZE earing.  -We see how a hemalurgist is made in the prologue from HoA that was just posted.-

The spike would need to pierce the man's body, passing through the heart, then be driven into the body of the Inquisitor tied below.

So to make the point that Vin got her Hemalurgy from her earing we must first make her mother a Hemalurgist.  So,w hat do we currently know of Hemalurgists?  We know that they have been pierced with metal, and that metal then went through and touched the blood of another Hemalurgist.  We also know that Vin's mother heard voices telling her what to do.  The only other people we hear this happening to are Hemalurgists.  Marsh, Vin,  and Zane.  SO, through this we can ASSUME that her mother was a Hemalurgist and caused Vin to become a Hemalurgist through this manner.

Now let's look at Inquisitors for a second.  They APPEAR to have all of the abilities of a Mistborn.  They have many metal piercings, presumably of all of the metals.  They can burn metals to an extreme degree, much better than any normal Mistborn or Misting.

So my theory on how this works is.  If one is pierced with a Hemalurgic metal, one gains the ability to burn that metal through Allomancy. -Evidence shown through the Inquisitors.-  Also, as per the proof given by the Inquisitors, and through Vin's unnaturally strong ability with Bronze, and Zane's abilities with Steel, we can infer that those with Hemalurgy can burn metals to form a greater affect than those who are just plain Allomancers.

THAT would explain Vin and Zane's strong abilities, as well as the strength and the sudden Mistborn abilities of the Inquisitors.  Also giving more evidence to say that the Inquisitors were not burning Duralumin.[/color]

[Comatose]

But Vin is also extremely skilled with brass and zinc (soothing and rioting) and although not as skilled as Zane, Kelsier remarks how easily she picks up steel and iron.
  AFter reading that prologue though, I've come to several conclusions about hemalurgy.
1.  The spike (at least the first one) must be rammed through the sacrifice into the hemalurgist.
2.  This is why the inquisitors dragged off the keepers at the end of book two, to use as sacrifices.
3.  Ruin's powers over the inquisitors is not absolute, there is still resistance
4.  This may also be why the skaa slaves wouldn't do (remember they left them behind in book 2), there needs to be a special person used as a sacrifice.
5.  These new inquisitors mad with feruchemist sacrifices may be different from regular inquisitors, since we all agree that it would hardly be possible to find a keeper for every inquisitor before the Synod came out into the open.  Before they had keepers what did they use as sacrifices?  Does this take us back to the mistborn sacrifice theory.

EDIT
I just reread it and something else jumped out at me that was mentioned before, when talking about the spikes that pierce his head, its says "there was no blood,"  Is this significant?  Why is there no blood, is it just part of hemalurgy, or do inquisitors bleed at all?  I forget, does the inquisitor bleed in Kelsiers fight scene, or is he just beheaded, and that's the end of it?

Maybe that's the reason mistborn are so rare.  And Brandon also says the inquisitors have uses for skaa mistings?  Sacrifices as well?
And I think we've talked a lot about Vin's mom being a hemalurist, and Vin's sister being the sacrifice.

[Miyabi]

I just reread it and something else jumped out at me that was mentioned before, when talking about the spikes that pierce his head, its says "there was no blood,"  Is this significant?  Why is there no blood, is it just part of hemalurgy, or do inquisitors bleed at all?  I forget, does the inquisitor bleed in Kelsiers fight scene, or is he just beheaded, and that's the end of it?

They do indeed bleed.  MB2 page 749 (If it's paperback).

Yet, Sazed could still see Marsh's face.  Blood dripped from the crushed socket.

Yup, they bleed.[/color]

[Andrew the Great]

I think that the statement that there was no blood was simply referring to the fact that Marsh isn't constantly bleeding. That makes sense. If his spikes have been there for a while, he wouldn't bleed.

The spike would need to pierce the man's body, passing through the heart, then be driven into the body of the Inquisitor tied below.

So to make the point that Vin got her Hemalurgy from her earing we must first make her mother a Hemalurgist.  So,w hat do we currently know of Hemalurgists?  We know that they have been pierced with metal, and that metal then went through and touched the blood of another Hemalurgist.  We also know that Vin's mother heard voices telling her what to do.  The only other people we hear this happening to are Hemalurgists.  Marsh, Vin,  and Zane.  SO, through this we can ASSUME that her mother was a Hemalurgist and caused Vin to become a Hemalurgist through this manner.

What? We have absolutely no comfirmation that Vin's mother is a hemalurgist. It makes total sense, true, but the quote you supplied doesn't in any way prove that the person sacrificing someone else to create a hemalurgist has to be a hemalurgist. Look at it again. The spike has to pierce the Keeper's body (he's the sacrifice) through the heart (which probably has something to do with the Keeper's blood) and pass into the man tied below him, who is becoming an inquisitor. We know that Marsh is an inquisitor, and he is doing the sacrificing, but that does not by any means confirm that the person doing the sacrificing has to be a hemalurgist. I agree that Vin's mom was a hemalurgist, but that's beside the point for this particular conclusion. Just want to clear that up.

Now, that said, there is enough evidence otherwise to establish that Vin's mother most likely is a hemalurgist, and that has been assumed for a good deal of time on this particular forum. So really, I don't get what you're trying to prove.

Now let's look at Inquisitors for a second.  They APPEAR to have all of the abilities of a Mistborn.  They have many metal piercings, presumably of all of the metals.  They can burn metals to an extreme degree, much better than any normal Mistborn or Misting.

So my theory on how this works is.  If one is pierced with a Hemalurgic metal, one gains the ability to burn that metal through Allomancy. -Evidence shown through the Inquisitors.-  Also, as per the proof given by the Inquisitors, and through Vin's unnaturally strong ability with Bronze, and Zane's abilities with Steel, we can infer that those with Hemalurgy can burn metals to form a greater affect than those who are just plain Allomancers.

THAT would explain Vin and Zane's strong abilities, as well as the strength and the sudden Mistborn abilities of the Inquisitors.  Also giving more evidence to say that the Inquisitors were not burning Duralumin.[/color]

This theory has been around for a while, actually, and is seen several times in this very thread. The main argument against this is that Brandon has consistently said that each magic system is independent of the others, though closely intertwined. If this is the case, then hemalurgy becomes a passive ability and not its own magic system.

A side note, any of you guys remember this thread? I haven't updated for a while and plan to soon, but I have yet to have anyone add anything else. Just send me a quote and where you got it from. Thanks! If anyone wants the compilation of Alendi's Logbook and Kwaan's Steel Plate that vintage did a while back, I still have them. Just give me a PM and make sure that your email is on your profile and I'll send them off to you.

Maybe that's the reason mistborn are so rare.  And Brandon also says the inquisitors have uses for skaa mistings?  Sacrifices as well?

I would assume sacrifices of some sort, though I'm still not a fan of the misting per spike theory.

[Miyabi]

I think that the statement that there was no blood was simply referring to the fact that Marsh isn't constantly bleeding. That makes sense. If his spikes have been there for a while, he wouldn't bleed.

The spike would need to pierce the man's body, passing through the heart, then be driven into the body of the Inquisitor tied below.

So to make the point that Vin got her Hemalurgy from her earing we must first make her mother a Hemalurgist.  So,w hat do we currently know of Hemalurgists?  We know that they have been pierced with metal, and that metal then went through and touched the blood of another Hemalurgist.  We also know that Vin's mother heard voices telling her what to do.  The only other people we hear this happening to are Hemalurgists.  Marsh, Vin,  and Zane.  SO, through this we can ASSUME that her mother was a Hemalurgist and caused Vin to become a Hemalurgist through this manner.

What? We have absolutely no comfirmation that Vin's mother is a hemalurgist. It makes total sense, true, but the quote you supplied doesn't in any way prove that the person sacrificing someone else to create a hemalurgist has to be a hemalurgist. Look at it again. The spike has to pierce the Keeper's body (he's the sacrifice) through the heart (which probably has something to do with the Keeper's blood) and pass into the man tied below him, who is becoming an inquisitor. We know that Marsh is an inquisitor, and he is doing the sacrificing, but that does not by any means confirm that the person doing the sacrificing has to be a hemalurgist. I agree that Vin's mom was a hemalurgist, but that's beside the point for this particular conclusion. Just want to clear that up.

I may be wrong here, but the way I read it was this.

We know that Inquisitors spiked protrude from their body, because the go all the way through.  And it said in that quote that It has to go through and into the Inquisitor below. (The Inquisitor already having Hemalurgy.)

The way this comes across to me is that in order for the person to gain Hemalurgic abilities, something must impale them and also go into a Hemalurgist in order for them to gain Hemalurgy.  That is where I gained the though of confirmation of Vin's mother being a Hemalurgist.

Now let's look at Inquisitors for a second.  They APPEAR to have all of the abilities of a Mistborn.  They have many metal piercings, presumably of all of the metals.  They can burn metals to an extreme degree, much better than any normal Mistborn or Misting.

So my theory on how this works is.  If one is pierced with a Hemalurgic metal, one gains the ability to burn that metal through Allomancy. -Evidence shown through the Inquisitors.-  Also, as per the proof given by the Inquisitors, and through Vin's unnaturally strong ability with Bronze, and Zane's abilities with Steel, we can infer that those with Hemalurgy can burn metals to form a greater affect than those who are just plain Allomancers.

THAT would explain Vin and Zane's strong abilities, as well as the strength and the sudden Mistborn abilities of the Inquisitors.  Also giving more evidence to say that the Inquisitors were not burning Duralumin.

This theory has been around for a while, actually, and is seen several times in this very thread. The main argument against this is that Brandon has consistently said that each magic system is independent of the others, though closely intertwined. If this is the case, then hemalurgy becomes a passive ability and not its own magic system.

Perhaps I worded this wrong.  What I MEANT to say was they APPEAR to have the abilities of Mistborn, because they can do the same things.  The thing being, they don't have to ingest the metals in order to use them.

Also a random little thing I noticed that MIGHT (this is a long stretch) add to this though is.  Vin is ALWAYS burning Bronze, but do you ever hear her talk of running low?  She talks about it with all of her other metals ALL the time. . . I can NEVER remember her talking of running low on Bronze.  This could just be coincidental though.

[Andrew the Great]

We know that Inquisitors spiked protrude from their body, because the go all the way through.  And it said in that quote that It has to go through and into the Inquisitor below. (The Inquisitor already having Hemalurgy.)

The way this comes across to me is that in order for the person to gain Hemalurgic abilities, something must impale them and also go into a Hemalurgist in order for them to gain Hemalurgy.  That is where I gained the though of confirmation of Vin's mother being a Hemalurgist.[/color]

I took that to mean that they drove the spike through the Feruchemist and into the Inquisitor below. The Inquisitor below meaning the person who is becoming an inquisitor. Although it could mean the person who already is an inquisitor. In that case, however, I would guess that it means the guy who was already PARTIALLY an Inquisitor. If it required both Feruchemial (or Allomancer) and Hemalurgical Blood to make one spike for an inquisitor, and that spike can fit into one man's chest without noticeably protruding, it would make much more sense to pound it through the two people individually than to try to get both at once. This way, I think makes more sense, where the guy on the bottom, the guy becoming an inquisitor, is the final destination for the spike. Although I do now see what you mean. Thanks for clarifying.

Perhaps I worded this wrong.  What I MEANT to say was they APPEAR to have the abilities of Mistborn, because they can do the same things.  The thing being, they don't have to ingest the metals in order to use them.

Also a random little thing I noticed that MIGHT (this is a long stretch) add to this though is.  Vin is ALWAYS burning Bronze, but do you ever hear her talk of running low?  She talks about it with all of her other metals ALL the time. . . I can NEVER remember her talking of running low on Bronze.  This could just be coincidental though.

We don't really have proof that the inquisitors don't have to ingest metals. Think about it. We've seen them on screen for what...maybe ten minutes at a time at most? We've never seen them ingest metals, but that doesn't mean that they don't. Plus, we know that the inquisitors CAN use allomancy. So it makes sense that they use it in the regular way, and not through hemalurgy.

Vin never runs out of Bronze for several reasons, among them being that Bronze is slow-burning, and Vin does not always use Bronze, she always uses copper. She does burn bronze fairly frequently. The only metal I can ever remember hearing about Vin running out of is Pewter.

And, Vin still does have to ingest Bronze, and Zane still does have to ingest steel, and other metals for the matter. So, I would say this doesn't look good for that cause.

That leaves me with the same problem I've always had, though. What does hemalurgy do?

It provides their healing abilities, unless it's possible to gain feruchemy. What else does it provide them? Can anyone think of anything that isn't included in allomancy.

[Miyabi]

Vin never runs out of Bronze for several reasons, among them being that Bronze is slow-burning, and Vin does not always use Bronze, she always uses copper. She does burn bronze fairly frequently. The only metal I can ever remember hearing about Vin running out of is Pewter.

And, Vin still does have to ingest Bronze, and Zane still does have to ingest steel, and other metals for the matter. So, I would say this doesn't look good for that cause.

She actually does say in a place or two part of the way through MB2 that she is ALWAYS burning bronze now.

I can remember her running out of Steel, Iron, Pewter, and Atium.  The point being, she always talks about running low on certain metals, but I can never remember her talking of running low on bronze.  I mean, of course she would drink it from the vial of mixed metals, because she wouldn't know of the Hemalurgy.  She can't explain why her Bronze is so strong, just like she used to not know what Luck was.

[Jansu]

Hello, all. I'm new here, but I'm jumping right in. I just finished reading the annotations for WoA, and I've just read both Mistborn books in the past couple weeks, so I'm new to all the ideas and certainly whatever discussion has taken place here already. Forgive me if I'm treading old water. Especially since I'm gonna jump all over the place.

It's not a well-formed in my head yet, but learning about Ruin and Preservation from the annotations (obviously they'll be featured heavily in HoA) makes me think there's some linkage between the magic systems and each of these entities. I would say Hemalurgy definitely is aligned with Ruin--think about the process of gaining its power and who has had access to it in the series. It's very bloody and messy, requiring sacrifice to gain. In some ways, it reminds me of the Dakhor monks from Elantris.

You'll also note that the Steel Inquisitors, who from what I see have the greatest and clearest link to hemalurgy, enjoy torture and causing suffering, etc. Furthermore, everyone who has hemalurgy hears "the voice" of Ruin. For Marsh, it's strong enough to control him--probably so for all the inquisitors. For Zane, it appeared as "God" but he often resisted it. For Vin, it's muddled up with memories of Reen--and I think the interesting thing about Vin and something that will probably be central to the climax of HoA is how she's overcome the voice (and how Zane was desperate to--"You were supposed to save me!") through trusting. That prominent theme has something to do with it, I think.

So whatever it is hemalurgy explicitly does, it seems linked to Ruin.

Feruchemy, on the other hand, to me seems linked to Preservation. It's what the Keepers do--preserve knowledge. It's what the power is about--preserving speed, strength, etc. for later. With the exception of the Lord Ruler (and even with him, it was used to preserve society, albeit in a tyrannical fashion) it seems to be used for good ends. Although admittedly we haven't seen that many Feruchemists. But I think this is interesting, and I think it's also interesting how Sazed ended up with his jewelry embedded in his skin at the end of WoA--like the Lord Ruler had his, and Brandon made a point of bringing that up in the narration. I'm interested in how that plays out in HoA.

That leaves Allomancy in some weird nether territory, though. The mists draw away from people with hemalurgy--the mist spirit seems kind of schizophrenic, both deadly with Alendi's packman, and with Elend, and it seemed hateful toward Vin. Yet Vin also understood it to be saving Elend and trying to keep her away from the Well of Ascension--which was probably true with Alendi as well. There could be two mist spirits, a good one and a bad one, but Brandon seems to have indicated there's only one. either it's crazy or it's very utilitarian in its opposition of Ruin. Could the Deepness itself be part of Preservation, somehow? To me that doesn't intuitively click, but it makes sense that Ruin, in altering the Terris prophecies, would make the Deepness out to be the enemy and that would explain the actions of the mist spirit.

I think more needs to be said about the Terris religion, which probably spells out about Ruin and Preservation better. And we know that Allomancy can be gained from Snapping due to a traumatic situation. I think the "pain" of that trauma is a good thing that tends toward Preservation's side as well--you gain the power of Allomancy in order to preserve your own life. Certain kinds of suffering like that seem to offset Ruin's ability, like how Zane's cutting himself weakens "God's" voice.

Like I said, I'm playing with a lot of different things, so I apologize. But I don't think we can understand Hemalurgy independently of the other magic systems because they seem complexly interwoven, especially in the characters hinted at having it that we've seen. Vin and the Lord Ruler seem as if they possess all three, and it's hard to say exactly where the Inquisitors get their power from, though there have been hints that they require the sacrifice of a Misting (hinted at in MB1) or Feruchemist (the prologue of HoA).

There's more missing from the puzzle in the Lord Ruler, too--did he create the Inquisitors, or did they already exist? What's his interaction with hemalurgy? I think this goes back to the Terris religion, because he's the only character we know who had knowledge of it--and something in that knowledge probably gave him an understanding of how to access hemalurgical powers for his ends. And if he wrestled with Ruin at the Well of Ascension and took the power for himself, did he think that he could use hemalurgy safely with Ruin so weakened and controlled?

I also think, though this is probably obvious, the three magic systems are linked through the chapter symbols (once again like in Elantris). In fact I think the Ars Arcanum chart shows that the metals are represented by the symbols. The striking thing about many of the symbols is that they look like they have spikes in them in different places, like inquisitors do.

Sorry, this is quite a ramble for a first post. Hope I've added to the discussion somehow.

[Andrew the Great]

Like I said, miyabi, bronze and copper are slow burning. Kelsier mentions in book one that many mistborn keep slow burning metals like copper and tin on all the time.

Jansu, Welcome to the forums! If you read the Prologue of Hero of Ages, you'll see that you're assumption about Ruin and Hemalurgy is correct.

It's whether Preservation is tied to Allomancy or Feruchemy that's a bit blurry. I agree, it seems like feruchemy is the more likely system for preservation. However, it doesn't really fit with what we've seen so far in the series. For instance, hemalurgy repels the mists, allomancy attracts them, feruchemy does neither. Ruin can control hemalurgists and can alter feruchemial metalminds, but seems to have no control over allomancy. So by that line of thinking, allomancy is Preservation's power.

I also agree about the lord ruler, we don't know enough about him to figure everything out. Chaos (a forum member) thinks that Rashek will likely be a character for the "bumps" for Hero of Ages, and I think that that would be awesome. Though the prologue didn't have a bump, so I hope the rest of the book does. Anyway, food for thought, and once again, welcome to the forums!

Sorry, this is quite a ramble for a first post. Hope I've added to the discussion somehow.

You should see my first post . It's onpage 9  of this thread. This is an average size post for this thread, though for most threads it would be rather long. None of us mind long posts anyway, it's not like we have anything better to do. We are here on the timewastersguide, after all.

If you're interested in catching up real quick on all of our discussion, I'll provide you a few links to interesting threads that will hopefully give you ideas.

First, read this thread all the way through. It's a little boring sometimes, and some of it is a little outdated, but it really is our best ideas so far.

Do Steel Inquisitors need to burn metals?
Theory on why vin is so powerful. You probably only need to read the first post of this one.
Ruin and Preservation
The mists
The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Reference Thread

There are probably more. I know that's a lot, but it's good stuff. If you don't want to read it all, just ask one of us crazy theorizers what we're talking about when you get confused and we'll try to explain our insane theorizing.

[Qarlin]

However, I personally (still) think it more likely that he's referring to the fact that you have to get 11 spikes into their bodies without killing them, and apparently going through the correct organs of the sacrifice(s).

(Hero of Ages Prologue topic, Andrew the Great)

HA! So what if Hemalurgy has something to do directly with the metal and different organs in the body? Like this metal in that organ of the sacrifice leads to this power in the hemalurgist.

An idea.

[JCHancey]

I may be reading too much into it but he drives brass into the heart, so does that have anything to do with it? Brass soothes(allomancy), but it also stores warmth(feruchemy). I think this is VERY important and we need to discuss this, unless I completely missed something while reading the 2 pages that the prologue caused to appear

[Andrew the Great]

I would agree with what you're saying, it is very significant that they drive the brass spike through the heart. I was actually referring to my belief that they likely drove every spike through the heart of a different sacrifice, and it had something to do with the blood.

It could, however, be related to which spike through which organ = power x. That leaves us with a lot of possibilities for power x though, and many different combinations to get it. Also, glad to be the source of an epiphany .

[Reaves]

also consider that when you drive a spike through someone's chest and into the next person, what happens? Lots of blood. Undoubtedly some of that blood will get transferred to the inquisitor below.... does that mean an Inquisitor needs feruchemical blood?

[Czanos]

The idea I've been playing with is maybe using Feruchemists and Allomancers to make Inquisitors is just a big plus for them. Like maybe Inquisitors gain powers based upon the metals/other substances within their blood, and by using a misting, Mistborn, or Feruchemist sacrifice (thus infusing the Hemalurgist's blood with the blood of the sacrifice,) they would gain the abilities of that sacrifice.

Some of the reasoning behind this is that we're pretty sure both Allomancy and Feruchemy can be transferred genetically, (Allomancy being directly stated and Feruchemy can be inferred by the Lord Ruler's attempt to cull it out of Terris people.) so there would be changes to the bodies of those who burned it, and probably changes to the blood of those individuals as well. Then, when that blood is infused into a Hemalurgist, they can use Hemalurgy to tap into the power stored within their blood, (usually metals, I would assume?) including the genetic abilities of the sacrifice.

This would explain a lot of things; why mistings (And possibly Mistborn) are often chosen to become Steel Inquisitors, as it would just be less Allomantic power they would have to worry about; why Inquisitors who used to be mistings can use every Allomantic power (it was bequeathed them via sacrifice); and why the Inquisitors would be using the Terris Keepers as sacrifices. (Inquisitors with Feruchemy. . . Ouch.)

[Andrew the Great]

So you think that hemalurgy is just some sort of process that allows people to access abilities that are stored in their blood? That's an interesting idea.