The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread

[darxbane]

Yes, blood and pain.  They both have relevance.

[Phaz]

Here's something I can't fully make the connection with.

There is lots of evidence that Hemalurgy is tied to Ruin (ie God with Zane and Marsh).  Hemalurgy has something to do with the metal in your body,  the presence of which also attracts Ruin to you.

However, Ruin is also seems to be repelled by metal.  "I write these words in steel."

So on one hand, Ruin seems very connected to (and gains his power from?) metal.  But in the other case, it seems to be something working against him.

Has anyone come up with any ideas to explain this?  It seems like a partial contradiction, so maybe one of the assumptions are wrong.

[Chaos]

Oh, that's definitely a paradox I've wondered about. I'm not quite certain how Ruin can manipulate solid things, like the rubbing Sazed made. I don't have anything that sounds good to explain that problem.

[darxbane]

Unless metal is a way for humans to tap into these powers that  Ruin, being a deity of some sort, can use naturally.  However, It does need some weakness to exploit (otherwise It would never have been imprisoned, and the end of MB3 would be alittle anticlimactic), and it appears that Ruin is unable to manipulate words carved in steel.   So, while Ruin has influence over the powers gained from using metal,  It can't actually manipulate or control the metal.

[Chaos]

Unless metal is a way for humans to tap into these powers that  Ruin, being a deity of some sort, can use naturally.  However, It does need some weakness to exploit (otherwise It would never have been imprisoned, and the end of MB3 would be alittle anticlimactic), and it appears that Ruin is unable to manipulate words carved in steel.   So, while Ruin has influence over the powers gained from using metal,  It can't actually manipulate or control the metal.

Those are excellent points. Ruin has to have some weakness, or else it could never have been imprisoned.

I think what you just said also means Ruin didn't create the Inquisitors. Vintage said something vaguely inferring that (I think--don't kill me if I'm wrong). Ruin--and we can presume Preservation as well--can't affect the metals itself, but it affects the effect that the metal has.

Fun: Using both 'affect' and 'effect' in the same sentence!

[Peter Ahlstrom]

As of book 2, there are two things we know Ruin can affect directly: Words written down on paper (or paperlike material) and words recorded in metalminds. That he can alter metalminds but not metal seems like a contradiction unless you think of it as a macro/micro question. Moving a few loosely-bonded atoms around on parchment is apparently much easier than reshaping metal (speaking as if book 2 is all I've read). Also, how do metalminds work? For the sake of argument, let's rule out straight "magic" and consider other options: How about quantum computers? If the memory inside metalminds is encoded in quantum bits, then changing it is simply a matter of flipping a few quantum bits, which are much tinier than the atoms involved in moving ink/charcoal around on parchment. It may be that it's even easier for him to affect metalmind memory than paper memory.

(Note: None of this is inside information, but is just the theory I developed while reading MB2 the first time.)

[Chaos]

So... we should take your theory for a grain of salt, right? Just kidding. You know I enjoy technical descriptions like that. Besides, the magic system I'm writing about in my own stories is all about how much energy it takes to do certain tasks, and thus, limits the power of the magic.

The major point is that Ruin isn't all powerful. He can't do EVERYTHING. Which, case in point, is why I don't think the Terris Prophecies are completely a fabrication on Ruin's part. It's just a tool Ruin uses, which is quite a different thing. (If you want to respond to that point, move to the HoA topic, because that has more relevance to the prophecies)

[Comatose]

OK, I didn't post the last couple days, and now look at me, I'm swamped, but I do have some things to say:
First of all, I'm pretty sure the lord ruler gets hhis healing abilities from burning gold with health stored in it.
Second, I like the hemalurgy theory!  god job
Third: I'm rereading MB! again and I gound some interesting things:
Vin can hear the well pulsing in book one, while the lord ruler is still alive, when she first pierces Kelsiers copper cloud (page 435 in the hardcover I believe).  Also, Alendi sensed  "The mind of the Deepness," which I'm guessing is Ruin.  In the log book entry on chapter 28 ( I think), He says he can feel the deepness's sentience.

[Chaos]

Vin can hear the well pulsing in book one, while the lord ruler is still alive, when she first pierces Kelsiers copper cloud (page 435 in the hardcover I believe).  Also, Alendi sensed  "The mind of the Deepness," which I'm guessing is Ruin.  In the log book entry on chapter 28 ( I think), He says he can feel the deepness's sentience.

I will check those references as soon as I get out of school--and finish work.

[Phaz]

Last night I started rereading the series again and noticed something fun.

Each chapter begins with one of the allomantic symbols.

However, the preface in the first one (hardback) doesn't have a symbol.

It has a spike.

[Comatose]

WE've also discussed that the symbols have something to do with hemalurgy, I think it's on the 15/16 metal thread.

[Chaos]

WE've also discussed that the symbols have something to do with hemalurgy, I think it's on the 15/16 metal thread.

I don't think I said "Hemalurgy" in that respect, there.

Now that I'm back with my Mistborn books, I shall reference the things Comatose touched on:

For a moment, she thought she felt something. Something very strange--a slow pulsing, like a distant drum, unlike any Allomantic rhythm she'd felt before. But it wasn't coming from Kelsier. It was distant...far away. She focused harder, trying to pick out the direction it was coming from.

Indeed, that is totally referencing the Well of Ascension. Excellent find, Coma.

Now for the epigraph on Chapter 28:

The Deepness must be destroyed. I have seen it, and I have felt it. This name we give it is too weak a word, I think. Yes, it is deep and unfathomable, but it is also terrible. Many do not realize it is sentient, but I have sensed its mind, such that it is, the few times I have confronted it directly.

It is a thing of destruction, madness, and corruption. It would destroy this world not out of spite or animosity, but simply because that is what it does.

I believe I've paraphrased this one once in the R/P thread. Or maybe it was somewhere else, like the HoA topic. Either way, I said that Ruin is just out to destroy the world because that is what it does.

[Comatose]

Yes but this proves that Alendi can hear Ruin's voice, or at least sense his intent somewhat.  i also posted somewhere (where did that other post end up, sorry I guess I got off topic, perhaps the ruin and preservation thread?) that Alendi is also influenced by Preservation, or can here it's voice (i.e., The whispers telling him everything will be all right)  You notice that ruin's voice is demanding, and Preservation (if this theory is right) speaks in whispers.  Just some speculations.

[Phaz]

Yes but this proves that Alendi can hear Ruin's voice, or at least sense his intent somewhat.  i also posted somewhere (where did that other post end up, sorry I guess I got off topic, perhaps the ruin and preservation thread?) that Alendi is also influenced by Preservation, or can here it's voice (i.e., The whispers telling him everything will be all right)  You notice that ruin's voice is demanding, and Preservation (if this theory is right) speaks in whispers.  Just some speculations.

The influence could be due to the amount of metal you have stuck in you.

Vin has a small earing, so it seems like she hears the voice sometimes.

Zane had a larger spike, so he heard the voice all the time.

Allendi had the "Piercings of heroes" (I believe) so he probably falls somewhere in between.

[Comatose]

Yes, and the inquisitors have 11 spikes, and the seem to be under pretty much complete control.  The way it sounded though, it wasn't like Ruin was speaking to Alendi, more alendi was listening in on some sort of "broadcast," sent out by Ruin through the deepness: Destroy Destroy Destroy