Author Topic: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread  (Read 100478 times)

darxbane

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #90 on: April 21, 2008, 08:34:04 PM »
I think she was making the same point we are, that even if the bracelets were just Ferchumical in nature, they were still a weakness.
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #91 on: April 21, 2008, 11:26:38 PM »
Exactly a weakness.  The Lord ruler definately knew this and took every effort to disguise this weakenss, but itwas a necessary weakness, without feruchemy, he wouldn't be immortal and he would die.  The Lord Ruler wouldn't want to give himself another weakness, so I don't think he would resort to hemalurgy, besides, where are his spikes?
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Vintage

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #92 on: April 22, 2008, 12:27:12 AM »
It's been mentioned but it has never been proven that the lord ruler uses hemalurgy,I myself think not.  All the hemalurgists we have known so far have had the same weakness, remove the spike, you die, or at least lose you're power (or in Vin's case gain another power,) and I don't thin kthe lord ruler would give himself this weakness, he's already paranoid enough about the bracers on his arms that he makes them pierce his skin.  I don't think he would give himself another weakness.

I was refering to this part of Comatose's answer to prove exactly that he had this weakness. And yes, he was hiding it. Remember ? It was under his sleeve and he removed it only for Vin  ;D Maybe he wanted to show her how strong he was not even thinking that she could fix that slight advantage...  :D
« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 12:29:00 AM by Vintage »

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #93 on: April 22, 2008, 02:05:23 PM »
Vin's earring proves that it doesn't have to be a spike, per se.  Besides, it wouldn't be an additional weakness.  Whether Feruchemical, Hemallurgical, or both, removing the bracelets was a weakness.  In fact, adding Hemallurgical properties to the bracelets and piercing his skin with them made them much more difficult to remove.
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #94 on: April 22, 2008, 08:08:36 PM »
OK, I thought you were saying there was some thing other than the bracelets, what you are saying is that the bracelets are hemalurgic, because the pierce the skin.

I don't think so, I think that the bracelets piercing his skin were just to prevent them from being stolen, and Vin's earing is still a sort of spike, jsut a small one through the ear, i don't thin kthe bracelets work that way. 

Quote
I was refering to this part of Comatose's answer to prove exactly that he had this weakness. And yes, he was hiding it. Remember ? It was under his sleeve and he removed it only for Vin  Maybe he wanted to show her how strong he was not even thinking that she could fix that slight advantage... 

Yes, I know he was hiding it and that the bracelets were a weakness, that's what i'm trying to say, he already had a weakness, and he knew it, and yes when removed those bracelets took his poer away and led to his death, but why, when he's already so powerful, would he resort to a lesser, "fabricated," power which he finds beneat him, and give himself another weakness:  One more things to remove and weaken him with.

I think the lord ruler's use of hemalurgy only includes making the first inquisitors, I don't think he used it on himself.

On the topic of the lord ruler, you know how he ampifies age by burning atium with age stored in it, well, what if he burned a feruchemical copper storage?  What would happen to the memories within?
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Vintage

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #95 on: April 22, 2008, 08:46:29 PM »
The thing is, we know that the Lord Ruler used his hemalurgy to give him strong power. But how ? If hemalurgists are known because they have metal stick in them, where was his metal ? Would the metal be there only to fool people ? Fool us ? Just to impress the sight ? I am not saying TLR was hemalurgist because of the bracelet, but simply because Brandon says he was so I am trying to find how could we know for ourselves without Brandon telling us in his annotation. Would the Lord Ruler get his hemalurgy just by immersing himself in the lake and keeping the power to himself ? Isn't then THAT power precisely the hemalurgy power ? Whatever that lake contains would then be the hemalurgy essence. If that is the case, the Lord Ruler had hemalurgy built inside him, the only natural hemalurgist.

Why, when the liquid gets into Vin ( I see that picture from Matrix lol ) does she take off her earring ? I know her earlobe hurts her, but what of the reaction itself ? If her earring had hemalurgy, and that her sister provided the blood bath needed to create hemalurgist, where did her Mom got the knowledge of this ? I did not read that TLR had a woman walking about in the midst of the obligators and Inquisitors. So where ?

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #96 on: April 22, 2008, 08:59:07 PM »
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. (Repeat "whoa"'s to infinity).

That actually... makes a lot of sense, Vintage. Wow... I'm without words, it's so awesome. While I am instantly in love with this idea, I find there is a couple of problems:

Where is the blood sacrifice for the Hemalurgical powers?

Vin mentions she has to burn the power away in a few moments. How, then, does the metal stay in the Lord Ruler's body?

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Why, when the liquid gets into Vin ( I see that picture from Matrix lol ) does she take off her earring ? I know her earlobe hurts her, but what of the reaction itself ? If her earring had hemalurgy, and that her sister provided the blood bath needed to create hemalurgist, where did her Mom got the knowledge of this ? I did not read that TLR had a woman walking about in the midst of the obligators and Inquisitors. So where ?

The mom was insane, I think from Ruin's influence. Ruin then wanted to make Vin into the hero who would go to the Well of Ascension, and thus, the insane mom "chooses" Vin over her sister. It mentions the choosing nature in WoA.

Very interesting idea about the Well and Hemalurgy. I love it.

« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 09:26:46 PM by Chaos2651 »
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #97 on: April 22, 2008, 09:09:26 PM »
There is just one problem [activates Buzzkill raygun], Alendi had the "piercings of the Hero", which allowed him to feel the well's pulses before Rashek killed him, meaning that Hemallurgy existed before Rashek ascended.  I think all three powers have existed the whole time, but somehow Allomancy was lost over the centuries and rediscovered by TLR when he took the Well's power.  I mentioned in another thread that the metal seems to just need to pierce the body somehow, which his bracelets do.  She does take off her earring.  The pain is too much for her to bear.  This could mean that the power of the well is the opposite of Hemallurgy, which, if Ruin controls Hemallurgy, it would make sense that an opposing force was imprisoning it.  Unless of course, the energy absorbed by Vin was Ruin, and not using it freed it.  I am completely guessing now.
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #98 on: April 22, 2008, 09:27:22 PM »
MODIFY: New direction about Hemalurgy.

My friend--who I loaned my WoA copy to but has not yet finished--had a very interesting idea. I had told him about Hemalurgy a bit and how it is related to metal stuck in your body. He said this to me about kandra:

"The kandra have Hemalurgy."

"What?" I say.

"Well, they don't have Allomancy, and they don't have Feruchemy. They have to get their power somewhere. That third magic system you were talking about, Hemalurgy."

"You need metal for Hemalurgy. Like, giant spikes through your eyeballs."

"Well, they have to get their power somewhere!"

And, I realize now, that there IS a liquid metal in existence: the Well of Ascension. The Lord Ruler touched that power, maybe he gave it to his creations of the koloss and kandra. Maybe not koloss, but remember, the koloss have nails stuck into them. That can't really be something the koloss just do on accident. The nails give them Hemalurgical powers. Maybe the kandra have it as well.
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #99 on: April 22, 2008, 09:30:51 PM »
That's what I think.  It gives the Koloss and Kandra something in common, something that allows them to be controlled by an Allomancer.  With that out there, do you think it is possible that TLR's mass soothing did more than just suppress people?  He could have used it to sense for Kandra and Koloss in the city, as well.
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #100 on: April 22, 2008, 09:50:42 PM »
Where is the blood sacrifice for the Hemalurgical powers?

Alendi provided for it maybe ? But I don't think Rashek brought him to the Well of Ascension - by the way, we think it was called like that because of Rashek ascending to power. Kwaan makes this impossible. He already calls it the Well of Ascension on his steel plaque. Back to the question. I gave it some thought. For such power as TLR had, I presume a lot of blood would be necessary. More so than for Inquisitors. How about those first nobles ? Let's say that he "slashes" them well to let the blood flow and right after his empowering, he gives them that bead Elend received from Vin ? It could be the reason why there are a lot of broken potery and a lot of beads missing. An only hesitation comes to my mind. Rashek was despising everyone who weren't Terris. Why would he chose "knowingly" to raise a new race out of those who aren't Terris ? What could be his reason to slash them to pieces ? Could it be possible that he truly wanted to kill them all ? I imagine it this way. Rashek has killed Alendi and came back to the power well and sees it ripe (lacking words, sorry, english isn't my first language) to give its fruit. He is loathed with those Kh... whatever the name is, so he calls them to meeting. He wants to show them that Alendi has failed completely. He wants to shame them all. He knows by his uncle Kwaan that he can take the power to himself eventhough he doesn't know every details. The Ruin pushes him to kill them and he wants to do it but something stops him before he's completely done and the well calls him. Blood has filled the place everywhere. He gets in the well and takes the power. He is full of it. He can set things really right now but he realizes that being dominant is not very funny without having anything to dominate - I don't know his thinking and truly, at his point, I don't really care. But the Mist Spirit (Preservation) is there and shows him the beads, he gives them to the dying people that surround him. But not only does the LR have all that blood, but he also has his own. That liquid fills him up, gets into his pores. He keeps the power to himself, he keeps that liquid as well and becomes nearly metal himself. No need of spikes. The first Hemallurgist is born, the Mistborns are born. Simplistic, yes. But also believable (with a lot of variable, I agree).

Somehow I strongly believe that the Kandra were not created by TLR, I believe they truly were created by the Mist Spirit, and therefore, as Tensoon said, they are of preservation, as are the Mistborns. Remember how much near the end, Vin and TenSoon were coming to realize that they had a lot in common ? I believe that Mistborns are the only tools that can vanquish Ruin. Moreover, it is not impossible for me to imagine that TenSoon, after reporting to the Kandra's High Counsel or whatever he calls it, comes back to Vin with a message from his race.

If TLR has started to use the Mistborns for his own end, it might be that he truly didn't know that Preservation was fighting Ruin, at this point. Remember what Kwaan said. Something has corrupted the Terris religion. A religion is not based only on a prophecy, it has moral standards, a set of doctrines, very often complicated. It could be that the Preservation (life) principle as well as the Ruin (chaos, death) principle got just lost somewhere. If everyone therefore where all unknowing, TLR could use for the moment Mistborns against Kandra (not right away - it would have taken sometime for the Mist to produce them somehow). I still have to find proof or at least passages that could indicate such thing.

I will talk to you about my folly. See, my brain is always in a turmoil. So much so that my daughter says I'm a storm...

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Vin mentions she has to burn the power away in a few moments. How, then, does the metal stay in the Lord Ruler's body?

I am not convinced that we can trust Vin on this point. First, she is full of the Well's power and it can corrupt things, metal OR mind, and I don't forget metal mind as well, of course. Second, she might think that it is the same for Allomancy, sleeping overnight with metal in you is not good for your health. It's poisonous. So, she knows it is metal in her...

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The mom was insane, I think from Ruin's influence. Ruin then wanted to make Vin into the hero who would go to the Well of Ascension, and thus, the insane mom "chooses" Vin over her sister. It mentions the choosing nature in WoA.

And being insane would give her the knowledge for a complicated such as making an hemalurgist ?

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Alendi had the "piercings of the Hero", which allowed him to feel the well's pulses

Really ? I don't remember... :'( Where does it mentions the "piercings" ?

I lent my copy of MB1 to a friend... going to buy another one Saturday... I just can't wait till she finishes.

Didn't we discuss the question of Kandra and metal somewhere already ? What did we say ?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 03:28:14 AM by Vintage »

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #101 on: April 23, 2008, 07:51:00 AM »
Not "insane", Vintage. "Hearing voices by a fundamental force called Ruin," yes. :P

I apologize in advance, Vintage, but I must take this conversation in a different. A new, better direction, I think.

My fellow theorizers, tonight as I was at work, stocking shelves monotonously, I suddenly had a revelation. About Hemalurgy, mostly, but it involves Allomancy, Feruchemy, Ruin and Preservation, and the mists (also, it brings up a very funny question regarding whether cows can use Allomancy/Feruchemy/Hemalurgy, but that one is a topic for another time). It's primarily Hemalurgy related, so I'll post it here. Be warned! I have a tendency to ramble, so undoubtedly, I will get off topic and go into those other "topics". I don't really want to split up this post to multiple topics, so I'm going to dump it all here.

My revelation is about Hemalurgy works. We all have evidence for Hemalurgy's existence, but we have never managed to figure out how it actually works. I am calling my particular model of Hemalurgy "Lighting-rod Hemalurgy". Confused already? This is going to be a convoluted one, so we will take baby steps. Another name for the theory could be Hemalurgy For Dummies, and believe me, we are all dummies in the realm of Hemalurgy.

Let's first discuss how Allomancy and Feruchemy work, because really, all three magic systems are related. The easiest way to start is to "define" Allomancy and Feruchemy.

Allomancy is the channeling of metal's powers to cause change. This process is called "burning", and uses up the metal. Allomancers can "flare" metals, which increases the strength of your Allomancy, but also makes it run out faster. Allomancers' power is limited, because you can only flare a metal burning so high. Now, we know that certain Allomancers, such as the Lord Ruler, are much stronger Allomancers, primarily because they have skill, but also because they must be flaring a metal higher. We will discuss the Lord Ruler a bit later, but I'm going to say that what limits an Allomancer's flare is how strong your "body" is. You'll see in a bit.

Feruchemy is the channeling of the body's power into metals for later use. A Feruchemist is limited because his power comes from the body, and not the metal.

Now, where does this leave Hemalurgy? It seems very cut and dry: one magic uses the metal's power, the other uses the body's. That doesn't leave for a third magic. However, I am of the opinion that all the magics are interrelated. The most important thing the three magics have in common is that a metal is always involved. Allomancy burns it, Feruchemy uses it as a storage device, and Hemalurgy seems to gain power by placing giant, impaling metal spikes inside of you. Always a metal.

Of course, as we will get to later, Inquisitors aren't the only "Hemalurgists", so that is a bit of an exaggeration, but all Hemalurgists have a metal inside of the body. I simply use Inquisitors because they are the most obvious example of Hemalurgy. Since I made that nice lead in, let's discuss Inquisitors. For one thing, their giant spikes are not killing them. That, by itself, tells you the spikes are important in some way (recall that there eleven spikes in an Inquisitor). Secondly, Inquisitors see by using something very similar to burning iron or steel: they see blue lines pointing to sources of metals.

Some people here have theorized they must be burning steel to do that--a logical presumption. However, I must point out that an Inquisitor's eye-spikes don't ever decrease in size, so they probably aren't burning metals. But, you could retort by saying Allomancers use tiny metal flakes which can really last for a long time, so a large metal source like a spike must be enough to last.

I have now become opposed to this line of thinking (though I once thought it sounded good). We don't really know how Inquisitors live. For all we know, they live for centuries, and that is a LOT of steel to be continuously burning, even on a low burn. It occurs to me that they would decrease over centuries or decades if they burned them, and it seems unreasonable, if the spikes got smaller, to place more metal inside of them (I mean, haven't they gone through enough with their eyeballs impaled?). So, I say a big "no" to Inquisitors burning metals. You see, after a while, the spikes would decrease in size. Eventually, that would cause the head-spikes and body-spikes to separate just because the metal is smaller, and then they die. The spikes are a matter of life and death for them. You wouldn't burn something like that, not when you can just drop dead.

So, the spikes are vitally important. The question that remains is: how? If we figure that out, we've figured out Hemalurgy.

And now I've created the perfect lead-in for my definition of Hemalurgy, at least of my Lightning-rod model (feel encouraged to disagree with my logic here. Seriously). No, I'm not saying that Inquisitors get their power from lightning. I'm saying something a little bit different. See, if you say Allomancy channels from metals, and Feruchemy channels from the body, that is not quite the most accurate statement. Feruchemy stores the body's energy, it doesn't burn it. The body's energy isn't lost, per se, just stored to be used at a more convenient time.

My thought about Hemalurgy is, essentially, the converse of Allomancy, though not in the way that one pulls the mists and the other pulls it. Let's go back to Allomantic definitions:

Allomancy burns Metal through the body.
Feruchemy stores body's energy into Metal.

Thinking that Hemalurgy is more the opposite, and Feruchemy is just the "middle ground", I guess, we can call Hemalurgy:

Hemalurgy "burns" the body's energy through Metals.

Not literally burning, mind you. I say "burning" to emphasize that the body is being used up (unlike Feruchemy, where the body's energy is stored for later use) like an Allomantic metal. Maybe the correct term would be "channeling".

Now it's time for some more in-depth exposition. By itself, you see, the body is not a magic. The body just kind of exists. It's rather lame. But, with this Hemalurgical model, the metals--like giant spikes or a certain bronze earring--acts as a "lightning-rod" to focus the body's energy. My theory is that the type of metal determines how the body's energy is focused.

Under this model, the Inquisitor's body would be continuously drained because they would be using Hemalurgy all the time. I just happened to take a look at the section of MB1 where we have Kar's viewpoint. He's our only Inquisitor viewpoint thus far, so we should take every word very seriously. And it says, on page 518 of the hardcover (for those of you with paperbacks, it is near the beginning of Chapter 38):

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Kar's smiled widened, despite his fatigue.

He had been awake too long. Living as an Inquisitor drained the body, and he had to rest often. His brethren were already shuffling from the room, heading toward their rest chambers, which lay intentionally close to the throne room. They would sleep immediately; with the executions earlier in the day and the excitement of the night, they would be extremely fatigued.

I think my explanation pretty much justifies how it drained the body. If you were constantly using Hemalurgy, your body would get very tired over a short period of time, so you would need to sleep to regain your strength. Basically, sleeping is the Hemalurgical equivalent to drinking an Allomantic vial.

But, what can you really do with Hemalurgy? Like Allomancy and Feruchemy, the type of metal always determines what can happen. Hemalurgy is most likely no different. I will attempt to explain some of Hemalurgy's powers now. I am hoping I will be right, but I doubt I'm any closer than "on the right track". At worst, I'm completely wrong. The powers, in the immediate sense, are not important, because Hemalurgy is a completely different magic system, with nuances we can't possibly think of. The important part, however, is the Hemalurgy uses the metals to "burn" the body's strength. That's the fundamental point.
 
So, powers. Metals roughly have similar abilities across magic systems. Pewter makes you stronger in Allomancy, and it stores strength (I think it does, my WoA copy is not on me at the moment) in Feruchemy. Therefore, it isn't completely out of line to say that Pewter in Hemalurgy "heals" you. Brandon mentions that Inquisitors heal rapidly. The Lord Ruler, as well, must have some sort of healing ability. Pewter helps (as it did when Vin was injured in MB1), so maybe Hemalurgical pewter does something similar.

It's important to note that Hemalurgical Pewter's healing is sort of weird. Hemalurgy drains the body, okay, so pewter wouldn't exactly revitalize your fatigued body. It could, perhaps, just heal the wounds in your body--but you would still be fatigued.

Bronze is next. Bronze is the seeking metal, and we happen to have an effect that does the same thing, but differently: piercing copperclouds. Vin's earring is bronze, and she pierces copperclouds. So, I think it is a very good assumption that Hemalurgical bronze pierces copperclouds.

The last one I think we can know with any degree of certainty is steel. It allows you to see incredibly small sources of metals everywhere.

Though, maybe atium has a Hemalurgical property to it as well. Perhaps being able to see the future more acutely--which is how that Inquisitor could find Vin somehow on the spires of Kredik Shaw that one time. I don't really know.

One thing disturbs me, though. Hemalurgy always has a close link with Allomancy. These "Hemalurgical powers" aren't really very unique: they just seem to increase your Allomantic acuteness. Maybe this is because Hemalurgy just is very similar to Allomancy in a general sense, or--more likely--what we are seeing is a melding of Hemalurgy and Allomancy (these points have been mentioned before). What if you were burning metals--the normal Allomantic method--but also channeling your body's energy through your giant Inquisitor spikes. You have two sources of power, so of course, their combined force will be greater. You'll be able to enhance your Allomancy that way.

Sigh. It's late. This is not a comprehensive Hemalurgy revelation, unfortunately. It doesn't really explain the need for blood sacrifices in Inquisitors (however, by merit of blood being the body, you could Hemalurgically channel it), and it doesn't really do anything to explain how Inquisitors get Allomancy.

Most of all, it doesn't explain why the mists are pushed away. Now, I've explained to you my Allomancy-mists connection at the beginning of "The Mists" topic. I'll discuss that right now a bit. It has always struck me as a bit odd that all three magics are based in metal. Why metal? It's just... bizarre. Certainly if I swallow some pewter, I'm not going to get stronger (which would be SO COOL, by the way). Something is causing the metal to be important. I only know of one barely-understood, enigmatic, Allomacy and Hemalurgy influenced substance: the mists! I think, actually, that the Mists are what gives the metal its power.

In Allomancy, it gives you the ability to burn metals (See "The Mists" topic for more). I have new evidence to support this theory, though. Namely, it is the quintessential moment of Mistborn 1, where Vin draws on the Mists. Myself, I've always believed that this involved Vin actually burning the Mists--I believe others have thought the same. However, this gravely not so:

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Vin stoked her iron, concentrating, Pushing it as hard as she could. She kept her pewter flared, struggling to keep from being crushed, and she knew somehow that she was no longer breathing. The force pushing against her was too strong. She couldn't get her chest to go up and down.

Mist spun around her, dancing because of her Allomancy. She was dying. She knew it. She could barely even feel the pain anymore. She was being crushed. Suffocated.

She drew upon the mists.

Two new lines appeared. She screamed, Pulling with a strength she had never known before. She flared her iron higher and higher, the Lord Ruler's own Push giving her the leverage she needed to Pull against his bracelets. Anger, desperation, and agony mixed within her, and the Pull became her only focus.

Remember that I said Allomancy is bounded because you can only flare so high? Well, it seems to me that drawing on the mists made Vin able to flare even higher. That shows that the mists can make you flare metals. I hope it isn't too much of a leap of faith to say that the mists itself is what causes you even able to burn metals in the first place (and the mists, then, would go into you when you are burning, thus explaining why they go towards you).

This important, because we are getting to the Ruin and Preservation part of the discussion. But first, there are two more magic systems to link to the mists. Hemalurgy pushes the mists away: why? Well, in a very Newtonian sense, Hemalurgy is just one giant push. It pushes energy from your body, focuses through the lightning-rod metal, and pushes outward. It seems to me that would push the mists away.

Now, Feruchemy is a difficult one. Very difficult. It appears to have absolutely no influence on the mists. In fact, you may say that the mists didn't "exist" before the Ascension. But as the Deepness, they did. Darxbane is of the opinion that all three magics have always existed. That could be true.

I came up with an idea about why Allomancy only appears after the Ascension. I think the Lord Ruler did something very fundamental to the mists themselves. From that point on, people could have the power to burn metals with Allomancy. Or something. I know I've quoted something before where Sazed said "All the legends agree: the first Allomancers came out with mists". Well, the Lord Ruler must have done something, because the Deepness and the Final Empire's mists are very different things. Of course, the mists are now reverting to their destructive ways.

Now, for Ruin and Preservation, or at least Ruin (because that's the one we see more)! Ruin uses the mists. The Deepness, essentially, act through the mists to kill (or make people sick). If Preservation is the mist spirit, that means that Preservation can also use the mists. This means both fundamental forces are inextricably tied to the mists for their power. Now, think about it. If the mists are the basis for all three magic systems, and if they can both influence the mists, then would not Ruin and Preservation both have an incredibly strong power over Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy?

In fact, this is what we actually see: Ruin having power over the magics. I believe that Feruchemy and the mists are tied together, perhaps the mists allow the Feruchemist to tap his metalmind. Ruin could be manipulating this relationship. It could be using the mists to change what is in the metalmind, which is how Ruin can change all the prophecies. It seems like the logical explanation to me.

With Hemalurgy, Ruin seems able to say things to people with things with metal in their body. Zane the insane voices, Marsh with whatever Ruin is doing with him, and Vin the power of the Well of Ascension.

...Speaking of that, that is sort of weird. From a pure fundamental-Hemalurgy standpoint, it almost looks like there are two Hemalurgies. The first one Pulls from the body to make external change. The second... pushes back INTO the body. Namely, Ruin saying lots of weird stuff. This little point here is definitely something to elaborate on.

I'm rambling, and I know it, but I had a good five hours to ponder at work. Of course I have lots to write. I think the last little sub-topic will talk about the Lord Ruler.

Vintage thinks the Lord Ruler has Hemalurgy through the Well's metal being inside of him. Sure, that sounds cool. Perhaps the Lord Ruler's power works like this:

He draws upon energy from his body, enhancing his Allomancy. The Well-metal has a ton of power, so that could explain why his Allomancy is so enhanced (remember the Lord Ruler doesn't burn the Well-metal. Hemalurgy doesn't eliminate the channeling-metal, just uses it). But, this leaves his body fatigued. So, he taps his pewtermind and burns that with Allomancy. He is rejuvenated with the uber power of the Feruchemy-Allomancy mix. Therefore, his Allomancy-Hemalurgy hybrid can be used indefinitely. Also, additional Hemalurgic powers can be used if he pierced himself with more metal. Feruchemists can store attributes into any metal they touch and Hemalurgy can channel through any metal that pierces the body. So, with Feruchemy-Hemalurgy, he multitasks and stores attributes, while also channeling lightning-rod style through them. Which enhances the Allomancy, and the cycle continues forever.

Also, burning the pewtermind gives him crazy-strong healing abilities. At least, enough to heal from that spear Kelsier thrust into him.

The only problem with the Lord Ruler's convoluted plan is that you would need lots of rest. Rest to heal Hemalurgy, rest to charge your Feruchemy, and heck, rest to wait for the Inquisitors to give you more Allomantic metals to burn. And this is exactly what we see. The Lord Ruler stays in his "box" of Kredik Shaw almost all the time. That way, he just waits and accumulates power. When the time is right, he can give his full might to his opponents.

...

Sigh. I hope that all made sense. I'm on a three-way system of power right now, just like the Lord Ruler: I'm on sugar from the two Dove chocolate bars I ate at work, caffeine from the Dr. Pepper I drank on my break at work, and the computer screen beaming into my brain, all keeping me awake. And, like the Lord Ruler undoubtedly does, I need time to rest.

Lol...

(If anybody wants to know how long that entire post was, it's over 3000 words long! That's over six pages, not double spaced!)

Tommorow, hopefully, if I'm still alive (Lord Ruler, I want your pewtermind!), I will summarize the Hemalurgy theory in a little more depth. I hope you liked that fundamentals lesson... Maybe we can actually extrapolate from there to discover other things about Hemalurgy.

And yes, at work, I do sit around and think about Mistborn sometimes--in case you think I'm insane.
www.17thshard.com - The Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite.

Oh SNAP, I'm an Allomancer.

Vintage

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #102 on: April 23, 2008, 04:55:13 PM »
I am not going to comment on this.  ;D But I did want you to know, Chaos, that you did an awesome job, there. It does make a lot of sense... but I am also at work and I really should be working instead of making believe I do while I think on Hemalurgy... lol

darxbane

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #103 on: April 23, 2008, 08:49:00 PM »
Wow!  Whatever you do, don't start drinking coffee till your at least 25!  :) Many of these points have been discussed, and a lot of them make sense, although that doesn't necessarily mean it's right.  I certainly agree with how Hemallurgy functions, with the metals acting as a focus for power.  Obviously, you can't just stick metal through your skin and call that Hemallurgy.  The blood sacrifice could bind the life force of the victim to the metal.  The metal then becomes a part of the host's body when inserted.  Just guessing here, but I think, through all 3000 words, your omission of the blood part of this magic is a major flaw.  We know it's necessary, we know that the Inq's feel pain from the spikes based on emotions.  We also know that releasing blood from the body quiets Ruin's voice in Zane's head (EUOL confirmed this in an annotation, and once again made a tease about the importance of blood and Hemallurgy).  This is all I will get into for now.  Two walls of text in four posts is enough I think.

Vintage - Don't worry, I wouldn't steer you wrong.  (my Great Grandparents came here from Quebec, after all).  If you re-read nothing else, re-read the bumps at the beginning of each chapter.  Know them, love them. 
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

Chaos

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #104 on: April 23, 2008, 11:58:55 PM »
Yeah, sorry darxbane. We kind of hit Hemalurgy a bit hard yesterday (a "bit hard" being harder than we've ever hit it before :P) And for your information, my beverage of choice is Dr. Pepper. Caffeine is ALWAYS an integral part of the thought process!

I apologize for the lack of the blood part. I left that out intentionally. I feared that if I rambled on about possibilities with blood, then I would have been even more confusing. So, for cohesiveness, I left it out. Undoubtedly, that is something to touch on more.

Actually... I'm starting to get the formulations of an idea as we speak! I'll let that ferment for a couple hours, and maybe I'll stay up uber-late for another massive wall of text.

But:

Quote
We also know that releasing blood from the body quiets Ruin's voice in Zane's head (EUOL confirmed this in an annotation, and once again made a tease about the importance of blood and Hemallurgy).  This is all I will get into for now.

No one ever tells me anything... Seriously! This is at least the fourth time I have completely missed an important fact about Zane (others include: Him having the spike, him having Ruin saying he isn't insane, and like, Zane pushing away the mists)! I must have this uncanny ability to completely ignore anything about Zane.

Anyways, I just "rediscovered" that annotation. It's WoA Chapter 27.

Quote
Zane's cutting has an interesting evolution in the story. At first, I added him cutting himself simply because--well--it made a cool scene. Zane, cutting his own arm in front of his father, primarily to make the other man uncomfortable.

However, there's more behind this, and the cutting worked very well into the interaction of the different magic systems in the book. Particularly Hemalurgy. The pain makes the voice in Zane's head weaker. There will be more on this later.

Perhaps blood is the internal body-strength I was talking about?

We need to talk about blood more, methinks.
www.17thshard.com - The Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite.

Oh SNAP, I'm an Allomancer.