Author Topic: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread  (Read 100139 times)

VegasDev

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #195 on: June 04, 2008, 09:57:31 PM »
Zane does the same thing; he is never seen swallowing Atium

He probably carried a bead in his mouth like he did with coins. That way digestive juices didn't ruin it and he'd be able to swallow and burn instantly. If it's a big enough bead he wouldn't need water to wash it down like you would with metal flakes.
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SarahG

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #196 on: June 04, 2008, 10:34:57 PM »
...the only hole i saw is there can't be an atium spike. Marsh was helping the crew at the end of MB1 (as opposed to the end of MB2 when he is against them) and it would only take a single spike made of atium in one of the several Inquisitors that die at the end of the book to avert the money crisis in book 2. ...

Nice catch!  Somehow that never occurred to me.  Then again, I've been withholding judgment on a lot of these theories floating around.  I think they're interesting to read, but most of them can't completely convince me because there's so much we don't know yet - they're just guesses, if informed guesses.
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VegasDev

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #197 on: June 04, 2008, 11:12:52 PM »
...the only hole i saw is there can't be an atium spike. Marsh was helping the crew at the end of MB1 (as opposed to the end of MB2 when he is against them) and it would only take a single spike made of atium in one of the several Inquisitors that die at the end of the book to avert the money crisis in book 2. ...

It appears that Marsh didn't tell them much about Inquisitors, so it's possible that if they did have an atium spike, he didn't tell them about it either or even took them for his own means. Not saying this is the case, just playing da.
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #198 on: June 04, 2008, 11:55:41 PM »
...the only hole i saw is there can't be an atium spike. Marsh was helping the crew at the end of MB1 (as opposed to the end of MB2 when he is against them) and it would only take a single spike made of atium in one of the several Inquisitors that die at the end of the book to avert the money crisis in book 2. ...

It appears that Marsh didn't tell them much about Inquisitors, so it's possible that if they did have an atium spike, he didn't tell them about it either or even took them for his own means. Not saying this is the case, just playing da.

the only problem with that is he probably would have used it against Sazed. But i quite understand the DA  :D
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Shaevar

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #199 on: June 05, 2008, 07:51:23 AM »
I didn't read all the comments on this thread, but something seems odd to me.

Why do people thinks that Vin is using Hemalurgy? Inquisitors have eleven spikes of metal in theirs bodies and Zane had one in the back. Why on earth would Vin be an hemalurgist? Because of her earring?

I recall marsh saying that the process to create an new Inquisitor was messy (it involved, as far as I know, big metals spike in the body and lot of deads, since marsh said there was several corpses used in his fabrication). The smalls earring of vin and the death of her sister, in my humble opinion, aren't enough to create an hemalurgist. I mean, compare the size of the spike versus the earrings of vin, the death of her sister (who was a child) with the amount of corpses involvend im Marsh creation.

The connection is interesting, but Vin seemed to lack....proper transformation. I mean, every hemalurgist seen had spikes , why would she make an exception?
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 07:54:17 AM by Shaevar »

Reaves

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #200 on: June 05, 2008, 01:34:56 PM »
Well, first of all The Lord Ruler was a hemalurgist, and didn't have any visible spikes. He did have piercings, however. Also, perhaps it takes more death to hemalurgize? is that a word? to hemalurgize eleven massive spikes than to do the same to a small earring.
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #201 on: June 05, 2008, 02:18:24 PM »
That's right, and if you reread book one, you find that the death of Vin's sister was described as "messy", which is exactly how Marsh describes the Inquisitor transformation process.  EUOL has mentioned in the annotations that Hemalurgy requires blood.  It is not hard to believe that there would be one sacrifice per piercing.  Vin's Hemallurgical powers are very small (piercing copper clouds).  Other than that, she only seems able to feel the pulsing of the well with it.  She is unable to draw on the mists again, and every time she tries she is wearing the earring.  Finally, in the last part of book 2, Elend notices that Vin is repelling the mists, something that EUOL has confirmed is a result of using Hemallurgy.


As for the atuim spikes, it is possible that Marsh was not completely versed in what the Ing's spikes were all made of.  Also, it is apparent that he is holding things back when they ask him questions, so maybe he just didn't tell them.  As to why he didn't burn atium against Sazed; maybe he hadn't yet been trained on that ability.  He still wasn't a very good allomancer in the fight with Sazed, at least compared to the Inq's we see in book 1.
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #202 on: June 05, 2008, 03:04:18 PM »
Zane does the same thing; he is never seen swallowing Atium

He probably carried a bead in his mouth like he did with coins. That way digestive juices didn't ruin it and he'd be able to swallow and burn instantly. If it's a big enough bead he wouldn't need water to wash it down like you would with metal flakes.

The problem with that thought, VegasDev, is that saliva is incredibly acidic, too. It essentially acts the same as regular digestive juices in breaking down food.

Quote from: Shaevar
I didn't read all the comments on this thread, but something seems odd to me.

Why do people thinks that Vin is using Hemalurgy? Inquisitors have eleven spikes of metal in theirs bodies and Zane had one in the back. Why on earth would Vin be an hemalurgist? Because of her earring?

I recall marsh saying that the process to create an new Inquisitor was messy (it involved, as far as I know, big metals spike in the body and lot of deads, since marsh said there was several corpses used in his fabrication). The smalls earring of vin and the death of her sister, in my humble opinion, aren't enough to create an hemalurgist. I mean, compare the size of the spike versus the earrings of vin, the death of her sister (who was a child) with the amount of corpses involvend im Marsh creation.

The connection is interesting, but Vin seemed to lack....proper transformation. I mean, every hemalurgist seen had spikes , why would she make an exception?

The importance in that, I believe, is simply that metal was inside her body, as a piercing would. A spike would just be, essentially, a far bigger "piercing".

Also, there is the fact that Vin's earring is bronze, which coincidentally is the metal that finds Allomancy. But it isn't a coincidence. Honestly, we don't really know the direct effects of Hemalurgy, other than the mists being repelled, but it appears that it is some kind of enhancement to Allomancy (that is just what is seen right now, not my actual opinion. I personally believe that Hemalurgy is a separate magic from Allomancy, so it is more than just an enhancement of Allomancy. Just, we haven't seen those different powers yet). The metals, in both Allomancy and Hemalurgy, must, logically, have similar powers. Vin can pierce copperclouds, so why is that? The earring, Hemalurgified, provides an explanation. Most Allomancers don't wear metal on their body... but Vin has that earring. And it's bronze.

It would be too coincidental if that wasn't the explanation.

On another note, it's important to realize that whatever Vin uses, Hemalurgy-wise, pales in comparison to what Inquisitors have. Inquisitors are far different creatures than Vin, in most conceivable ways, the most clear example being that Inquisitors have incredible healing abilities. Vin does not have anything close to the Inquisitors in that respect.

Quote
Finally, in the last part of book 2, Elend notices that Vin is repelling the mists, something that EUOL has confirmed is a result of using Hemallurgy.

Page number, please? I don't remember that at all. How could I have missed that, lol? (But asking that is like wondering why I missed crucial details about Zane, but whatever...)
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SarahG

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #203 on: June 05, 2008, 04:49:37 PM »
...the only hole i saw is there can't be an atium spike. Marsh was helping the crew at the end of MB1 (as opposed to the end of MB2 when he is against them) and it would only take a single spike made of atium in one of the several Inquisitors that die at the end of the book to avert the money crisis in book 2. ...

It appears that Marsh didn't tell them much about Inquisitors, so it's possible that if they did have an atium spike, he didn't tell them about it either or even took them for his own means. Not saying this is the case, just playing da.

OK, I guess that's possible.  I would have thought that Vin and the crew would have wanted to study those Inquisitor bodies, to learn as much as they could about them, even though they now knew the one most important fact: how to kill them.  However, perhaps there was enough confusion there at the end of MB1 that Marsh could have had a chance to dispose of the Inquisitor corpses while the other crew members were busy setting up the new kingdom.  Maybe they even ASSIGNED Marsh this job, since it would naturally be in his domain and at that point they all still trusted him.
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #204 on: June 05, 2008, 05:40:46 PM »
Let's see, you just killed God, you have taken over the area he ruled, and you are now trying to organize this massive kingdom without getting killed or letting the people down. Oh, and it doesn't help that you're trying a completely new form of government, as well as the fact that your budget is shot (you didn't find the atium). These guys have a lot on their minds. Their not going to be thinking about, "Hey, let's go study the inquisitors!" As far as they're concerned, the Inquisitors are going to disappear now that the Lord Ruler is gone anyway.

Chaos, I'm beginning to wonder if piercing copper clouds is not hemalurgy related and is just a result of being a very strong allomancer. The well's pulsing though, I am fairly sure has to be her earring. I don't really have any evidence on this, I just think that it feels too much like an allomancy enhancer, and I'm trying to get away from those.
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Reaves

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #205 on: June 05, 2008, 05:48:04 PM »
  Finally, in the last part of book 2, Elend notices that Vin is repelling the mists, something that EUOL has confirmed is a result of using Hemallurgy.
can u give a quote of him saying that? i dont remember anything like that...
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #206 on: June 05, 2008, 05:51:30 PM »
Zane does the same thing; he is never seen swallowing Atium

He probably carried a bead in his mouth like he did with coins. That way digestive juices didn't ruin it and he'd be able to swallow and burn instantly. If it's a big enough bead he wouldn't need water to wash it down like you would with metal flakes.

The problem with that thought, VegasDev, is that saliva is incredibly acidic, too. It essentially acts the same as regular digestive juices in breaking down food.

Yes, saliva does help soften and break down food, but it is nowhere near as acidic as the stuff in your stomach. The only reason the digestive juices dont burn right through your stomach wall is that the stomach has its own mucus lining.
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #207 on: June 05, 2008, 07:45:08 PM »
I would think Zane would have trouble talking with an atium bead in his mouth all the time, especially one large enough to accomodate the time he kept the burn going.  I can't remember the exact page right now, but if you find the chapter where her and Elend are heading to Kredik Shaw to find the well, Vin tells him something about the mists, and Elend replies, "Actually, it looks like the mists are moving away from you!"
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #208 on: June 05, 2008, 08:46:27 PM »
The problem with that thought, VegasDev, is that saliva is incredibly acidic, too. It essentially acts the same as regular digestive juices in breaking down food.

Wow, first time I've heard saliva had acid in it. Here I thought saliva was 98% water, with the reamining 2% primarily mucos, antibacterial compounds and enzymes which really only break down starches and protein.  ;)
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #209 on: June 05, 2008, 11:45:01 PM »
You could be right, VegasDev. My biology knowledge is not very immense... I just heard it helps break down food. To me, that sounds like acid, but it could be as you said. I don't really know.

Quote from: Andrew the Great
Chaos, I'm beginning to wonder if piercing copper clouds is not hemalurgy related and is just a result of being a very strong allomancer. The well's pulsing though, I am fairly sure has to be her earring. I don't really have any evidence on this, I just think that it feels too much like an allomancy enhancer, and I'm trying to get away from those.

Actually, that was what I thought when Shaevar brought it up. New people definitely make you question the evidence to make sure you are right. At first, I'll admit I didn't really know evidence right off the bat. It's just something we kind of assumed for a really long time.

However, I'd be surprised if it didn't. It is way too coincidental for there to be a bronze earring--specifically because Ookla said Brandon changed the earring's metal for "obvious reasons" (from it being steel to the steel just being a sort of paint covering the bronze)--and the bronze not being particularly vital to piercing copperclouds. And since Allomancy/Feruchemy gives no indication that having a piece of metal pierced in you would actually help, it is logical to presume it is Hemalurgy related.

I just thought of something. You can only "pierce" copperclouds when you have metal "pierced" in you! Aberration of language, or vital clue?
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