Author Topic: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread  (Read 105804 times)

Chaos

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The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« on: March 06, 2008, 07:59:52 PM »
Because it's really starting to make me angry that we don't have one. Let's channel all Hemalurgy stuff here, okay? Just so we get everything in one theory topic.

For those of you who don't know, Hemalurgy, as Brandon said in his MB1 annotations, is how the Steel Inquisitors are the way they are.

I'm running a little short of time, so I won't be able to summarize some of the stuff already mentioned about the subject, but I'll try as much as possible.

Steel Inquisitors push away the mists. They have the power of a Mistborn. They can use atium like Mistborn can. Steel Inquisitors created through blood and human sacrifice, shown in MB1 with Marsh and in MB2 at the Conventical of Seran. So, obviously, Hemalurgy has to do with blood. Inquisitors have spikes through their eyeballs, and it's been theorized that each spike is a different metal, and they burn those metals there.

Possibly, it has been said that the Inquisitor's healing powers come from Feruchemy, using the metal inside them to store up attributes, much like the Lord Ruler.

I'm running out of time, so I'll link you all to two Hemalurgy-related topics for some, well, "feeding material". Or whatever.

http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=5736.0
http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=5697.0

So, Hemalurgy. Let's discuss this in depth, sorting out all the details.

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darxbane

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2008, 11:28:38 PM »
I am glad you started this thread.  Let's get rolling.  I was reading MB2 Chapter 27's annotation and EUOL mentions that Zane cutting himself quiets the voice in his head, and this has something to do with the properties of Hemalurgy.  Of course, he then basically RAFO's us, but the connection to blood and Hemalurgy is again shown.

Another Hemalurgy possibility is, of course, Vin's earring.  Her mother kills her sister then jabs the earring into Vin's ear.  She also pushes away the mists at the end of MB2, and can't draw on the mists again like she did at the end of MB1, when her earring was pushed out by TLR.  Pretty good evidence, I'd say.

In addition to Chaos' points on Steel Inquisitors, I would also add that they seem to possess additional powers beyond that of a Mistborn, like incredible healing powers, and the ability to "see" the blue lines from even the smallest amounts of metal, so much so that they can see things in great detail purely through Allomancy.

Finally, should we spend any time discussing how the SI's feel pain from the spikes based on their emotions?  Marsh and the lead Inky (Kar?), mention the pain briefly at different times.    That's all I have for now.
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Shost

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2008, 12:46:44 AM »
well i looked up the reference to kar feeling "the pain of joy (pg. 518 mb1)" when the inqs got control of the ministry. i get the feeling that they simply always feel pain just different kinds and to different degrees. like feeling the pain of calmness or the pain of anger. i'm just speculating here since i really have no idea what the significance could be.

as for the 'seeing' the blue lines of people, i get the feeling its just that those spikes in there eyes are either steel or iron (or maybe both) and in some way they can see the iron in people's hemoglobin (i forget who it was that mentioned hemoglobin in another thread) thought they appear to be able to 'see' metal in just about everything. oh and don't forget that vin can exploit this by throwing pewter in their eyes like she did in mb1.

Chaos

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2008, 03:02:00 PM »
I am glad you started this thread.  Let's get rolling.  I was reading MB2 Chapter 27's annotation and EUOL mentions that Zane cutting himself quiets the voice in his head, and this has something to do with the properties of Hemalurgy.  Of course, he then basically RAFO's us, but the connection to blood and Hemalurgy is again shown.

Another Hemalurgy possibility is, of course, Vin's earring.  Her mother kills her sister then jabs the earring into Vin's ear.  She also pushes away the mists at the end of MB2, and can't draw on the mists again like she did at the end of MB1, when her earring was pushed out by TLR.  Pretty good evidence, I'd say.

In addition to Chaos' points on Steel Inquisitors, I would also add that they seem to possess additional powers beyond that of a Mistborn, like incredible healing powers, and the ability to "see" the blue lines from even the smallest amounts of metal, so much so that they can see things in great detail purely through Allomancy.

Finally, should we spend any time discussing how the SI's feel pain from the spikes based on their emotions?  Marsh and the lead Inky (Kar?), mention the pain briefly at different times.    That's all I have for now.

Aha, Chapter 27 annotations. Wonderful :D.

I would be stupid and say, "They have spikes through their body. Of course it hurts," but I won't. Oh, wait, I just did.

I'm beginning to believe that if Zane and Vin's mom heard voices, and this was because of Hemalurgy, then wouldn't that mean that Ruin (For info on Ruin, read this topic. Very illuminating) can also affect the Steel Inquisitors? If Zane can hear Ruin because of his bizarre spike in him, then Inquisitors should be having this a lot worse.

Then again, Marsh did go "crazy" at the end of MB2. He constantly states that he doesn't know why he's doing it. Ruin controlling him, perhaps?

Here's something else about the voices (which is, perhaps, still on the topic of Hemalurgy). If the Lord Ruler was surpressing Ruin (aka the Deepness) during his reign, could Ruin still have influenced Inquisitors? Kar's viewpoint makes me think no here, but Vin's mom absolutely heard voices before the Lord Ruler's death.

Which means, of course, that Ruin's been manipulating things for a long, long time.
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VegasDev

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2008, 05:37:57 PM »
A few other questions:

How did Vin's mother hear the voices as well. Was a ritual using Hemalurgy done on her or is this even a prerequisite?

It seems that the Inquisitors had been looking for Vin since she was but a babe. You would think that if Ruin was speaking to Vin's mother as well as the Inquisitors, they wouldn't have needed to look because they would know exactly where she was. Was it actually Preservation communicating with Vin's mother? Was Preservation speaking with Vin's brother, telling him to keep Vin alive, make her tough, etc?
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2008, 06:14:34 PM »
Not to stray off topic, but it seems apparent that Preservation doesn't speak to anyone, which is why the mist spirit just points and stabs people.  OK, back on topic:  Marsh basically admits that he is being told to do these things.  There is no question in my mind that Ruin manipulates people through metals.  He can change what is stored in a metal mind, and it is apparent to me that it can exert some kind of control over Hemallurgic metals. 
       Chaos, since you are already rereading MB2, see if you can find something related to metals inside the Koloss.  I could have sworn I remember some reference about each of them have a small metal nail or something like that, but I could be wrong.

VeagsDev, I think that having Hemalurgic metal piercing your body is a prerequisite to hearing the voice of Ruin.  You should ask how the Inquisitors were so sure of Vin's existence?  I think they were subtly made aware of her.  The Lord Ruler was staunchly opposed to changing the Ministry's power structure.  The act of changing his mind caused his death, which is exactly what needed to happen in order for a new "Hero" to release the Well's power.   The Inq's also seemed to always be right behind her, almost as if she left a trail, or was being monitored through her earring.
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Chaos

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2008, 06:51:12 PM »
No VegasDev. If Vin's mom was controlled by anything, it's Ruin. You know why? Ruin wants to keep Vin alive. Ruin chose Vin to be the false Hero of Ages so she could release Ruin.

And I'll give you citations!

p. 417 - This page (Well of Ascension, of course) is where she tells Elend where she got her earring. She describes that her mother heard voices. Her mother killed her sister, but then gave Vin the earring. Vin says, "As if... as if choosing me over my sister. A punishment for one, a twisted present for another." If we link Ruin to this, then it's obvious that Ruin, at a very early time, decided Vin was the one he wanted.

And so, like any ultra-manipulative uber-spirit locked away for a millennium, he began to spend his time manipulate things to bring Vin to the Well of Ascension.

p. 453 - Zane's death scene. Zane thought that Vin would save him because she was the only one the voice (God) didn't want to kill. The minute Zane thought this, God whispered "Of course I don't want you to kill her." Then, in a twist of fate, God says that Zane was never insane.

This tells us some very interesting things. Obviously, the "God" is Ruin, this has already been mentioned several times in the forum, so that shouldn't be a surprise. But the interesting thing is that Ruin wants to destroy everything. Zane is told to kill everything, all the time. No exceptions. Except for Vin. Why Vin? Because Ruin wants Vin to release him at the Well of Ascension.

Back to Hemalurgy, I think we can say Hemalurgy is the "art of wielding the metals inside your body". Loose definition, yes, but it's something to go on.
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2008, 07:16:18 PM »
It definitely has benefits, but we are learning how high the price is, aren't we?  I wonder what Zane's spike was made of?  I think it was made of either Steel or Atium.  My only evidence to support these choices are:
1.  His amazing control he possessed when pushing of metal.  He could hover, and slowly raise and lower himself while changing position in mid air, something Vin is amazed by.  It could be from lots of practice, but maybe not.

2.  He seems able to burn Atium for much longer than Vin ever does, and he has no concerns about getting more.  He has his own stash, but does he need it?  He burns Atium the entire time at the Keep where Cett was hiding out.  He burns Atium during the entire fight against Vin, and never to we see him ingest metals.  He could just have a ton, or again, could have an enhanced ability.

Of course, this all hinges on whether or not my theory about Hemalurgy is correct.  It scares me that I almost want to learn more about this than how Ruin will be defeated!
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Chaos

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2008, 10:21:11 PM »
I doubt it's an atium spike. It mentions earlier that Zane had his own stockpile of atium, so Straff trying to control him by giving him atium was quite fruitless. So it makes it seem like he has a lot of atium to spare.

Now, steel, on the other hand, is a lot more likely. Perhaps the nature of Hemalurgy is it "enhances" Allomancy in a way. Steel spikes give more control over steel. Bronze earring gives the ability to pierce copperclouds. 

We could be wrong here, but maybe not. A bronze earring just seems too coincidental for it to not be deliberate. I mean, Brandon went through all this trouble to get a cool alloy for aluminum, so I don't think he'd tell us that the earring was specifically bronze, only to later say it was all unintentional.

I think a question to ask is, though, how does Hemalurgy have anything to do with Ruin talking in your mind?
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2008, 09:56:01 AM »
My guess is that the process of Hemallurgy makes the metal a part of the recipient.  This would allow Its influence to pass through the metal to the host, if you will.  The amount of metal in a person's body also seems to have a direct effect on the amount of influence exerted.  There is no doubt that Ruin can manipulate metals in Feruchemy, and little doubt in my mind that It can influence Hemallurgy.  The only thing it doesn't seem to control is Allomancy.  At least, there has been no evidence of that yet.  "There's always another secret".  I may quote that in my sig.
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Chaos

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2008, 04:03:35 PM »
I suppose, but Hemalurgy seems to me like an... "enhancer" of Allomancy. If piercing copperclouds is from Hemalurgy, then it looks like Hemalurgy gives you more power over Allomancy. Maybe this is because Hemalurgy allows you to control how the metals burn in your body, which gives you crazy more control over everything.
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2008, 12:26:37 AM »
That stuff about the inquisitors being able to track VIn through Hemalurgy seems to ring true, but I don't think it's because of Hemalurgy.  In the first book Clubs says something about the Inquisitors canb catch up with all of them eventually.  My guess would be that the Inquisitors use the Bronze spike to see allomantic pulses that are still hanging in the air.   We already know they can see trace amounts of metal everywhere, and pierce copper clouds, so why couldn't they sense old allomantic pulses.  Just a guess of course. 
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Chaos

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2008, 06:12:36 AM »
I really need to reread MB1 for those clues about Inquisitors. My memory is a bit fuzzy.

If Inquisitors can pierce copperclouds, then there's no question: that ability comes from Hemalurgy. The Lord Ruler definitely has enough piercings to qualify him as a Hemalurgist, Inquisitors obviously have the spikes, and Vin has her earring.

Hmmm... Hemalurgy is weird. Allomancy, by nature (as far as we know, without enhancement), cannot affect metals inside of someone, and yet, with Hemalurgy, you can. We need to start to apply some rules to Hemalurgy. All of this abstract thought is painful...
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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2008, 09:29:46 PM »
A bit hard to apply rules to something we don't fully understand, tisn't it?
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Chaos

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Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2008, 09:55:48 PM »
By applying rules, we can begin the process of understanding :D.
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