Author Topic: Ruin and Preservation  (Read 43186 times)

Reaves

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #240 on: July 24, 2008, 08:47:28 PM »
and he probably didn't have the love of his life dying right next to the Well either.

lol no that was Alendi
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Czanos

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #241 on: July 30, 2008, 09:20:36 AM »
Okay, so here are some things I've been noticing on my latest read-through of the books.

To start, The Lord Ruler was an important person. By staying alive, he somehow prevented Ruin from sending the Deepness upon the land. It was only after The Lord Ruler's death that the mists started coming during the daytime and killing people.

On top of that, The Lord Ruler knew what was going on. It's the only way I can see his justification for his comments at the end of The Final Empire. He had been alive when the Deepness ravaged the world a thousand years ago, and he was actively stopping it.

This is all a very complicated system. The mists are presumably the Deepness, a tool of Ruin, but the mists are also repelled by Hemalurgy, which it seems is also strongly affected by Ruin. Perhaps what happened was The Lord Ruler made Hemalurgy when he was in the Well of Ascension to stop the Deepness. (Explaining why Hemalurgy pushes away the mists, as it was created to prevent their harsher side . . .) Then, because Ruin was trapped within that very Well of Ascension, it gained a foothold in Hemalurgy. It would lend credence to The Lord Ruler's comment about Hemalurgy being "endowed fabrications" and solves both why Hemalurgy repels the mists and why Ruin can speak to Hemalurgists. Any evidence for or against this?
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GreenMonsta

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #242 on: July 30, 2008, 05:02:58 PM »
Ok i can see some credit to your idea, If this is true than Allomancy could have been one of the things created by the Lord Ruler as an attempt to stop ruin. kinda like a failed invention, just because it doesnt do what its supposed to doesnt mean its useless. thats just a thought seeing how i cant find any difinitive reason for the existance of Allomancy and it came into being at the time of the Lord Rulers ascention. this would also explain preservations apparent lack of ability to talk to or control hemalurgy. im not saying that preservation cant do these things im just saying it hasnt appeared that it can. if this idea proves to be true than preservation would lack the ability due to the fact that it wasnt trapped in the WoA.

Ok maybe allomancy was created as an attempt to stop the mist dirrectly. we know the mist is somehow involvel in allomantic powers, seeing how Vin absorbed the mist and used it to enhance her abilities. maybe allomancers were created as people who could combat the mist in some unknown way. the Lord Ruler was doing it while he was alive, maybe he did it with his enhanced allomantic ability. just speculation i havnt really done any research or thought it through entirly.
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Czanos

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #243 on: July 30, 2008, 06:45:02 PM »
I agree that The Lord Ruler very possibly could have created Allomancy as well, but I'm not so sure if he created it to combat the Deepness. If he say, created Hemalurgy and used the Well's power to beef up Preservation, he might have then wanted to create a magic system that could tap into the power of the mists, or create one that he could use in tandem with Feruchemy to keep himself alive and in power forever. (If so, perhaps he created atium as well. He could change the world to make it a Feruchemical metal to store up age, and make it a Allomantic and maybe Hemalurgic metal as well.) But I think both Hemalurgy and Allomancy were created by The Lord Ruler, if for no other reason than the fact that I've always found it strange that all three systems use the same metals, and none others that we know of.
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darxbane

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #244 on: July 31, 2008, 04:22:20 PM »
He most likely did not create Hemalurgy.  Alendi had the piercings of the hero, and could feel the well pulsing, just like Vin.  If you recall the end of book 2, Vin begins to feel the pulses even when she is not burning bronze, which means she most likely feels the pulses through her earring, which is made of bronze. This leads me to believe that Hemalurgy was already in existence. He may have created Allomancy, but it is more likely he rediscovered it.
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Czanos

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #245 on: July 31, 2008, 07:44:55 PM »
Good points. Well, that makes this theory (mostly) useless, so it's time to venture back to the drawing board.

I still want to know what's up with The Lord Ruler and all the magic systems using the same metals though . . .
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darxbane

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #246 on: July 31, 2008, 07:57:24 PM »
There are some differences.  For example, in Feruchemy, Atium stores age.  It is theorized that burning Atium with your age stored in it creates a huge burst of power that tips the balance to allow someone to stay the same age indefinitely (feruchemy is a give and take by default).  Additionally, we don't exactly know what Hemallurgy does, but I imagine combining feruchemy with Hemalurgy has an equally potent effect.  Now that the Inquisitors are using keepers to make new Inq's, we should be seeing some pretty ridiculous things.  By the way, is anyone else intrigued that the  spike Marsh is pounding in during the prologue for MB3 is a Bronze one?  This should be brought up in the Hemalurgy thread, as well.
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Czanos

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #247 on: July 31, 2008, 08:24:17 PM »
It has been, I think.

And to clarify, I don't wonder about the lack of differences between using each metal in each system, I wonder why it seems that Allomancy, Hemalurgy, and Feruchemy, ALL use the same actual metals. (Steel, bronze, atium, etc.)
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Miyabi

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #248 on: July 31, 2008, 09:35:07 PM »
It has been, I think.

And to clarify, I don't wonder about the lack of differences between using each metal in each system, I wonder why it seems that Allomancy, Hemalurgy, and Feruchemy, ALL use the same actual metals. (Steel, bronze, atium, etc.)

Probably because each metal has it's own attribute and these are all the basic metals on a periodic chart.
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Czanos

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #249 on: July 31, 2008, 10:14:36 PM »
But there are plenty of other metals on the Periodic Table of the Elements.  For example, we know why silver wasn't used in Allomancy, (Brandon couldn't find a good alloy of it, among other things.) but why isn't it used in Feruchemy? (Or Hemalurgy?)
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Miyabi

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #250 on: July 31, 2008, 10:50:42 PM »
As far as Hemalurgy goes I don't know, but if you notice Feruchemy also used the alloys.  I assume that they are connected on a basic level.  I know Brandon has said they are all different, but that doesn't mean they aren't connected at an extremely low level.
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darxbane

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #251 on: August 01, 2008, 01:46:25 PM »
I suppose the simplest answer is to prevent the magic systems from becoming overly complicated.  Beyond that, EUOL needed a way to allow TLR to combine the three magics to make himself so powerful.  I think this would be much more difficult to understand if TLR needed 25 different metals on him that had no relation to each other.  Finally, you are assuming that this world has the same number of elements that ours does, and Atium alone proves that is not be the case.
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happyman

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #252 on: August 01, 2008, 04:49:51 PM »
I can't help but suspect that in some very deep sense, all of the magic systems are connected or have similar foundations.  The fact that

(1) two of the systems are known to use the exact same metals with the exact same alloys and
(2) there seems to be a connection between what Feruchemists can do with Pewter and Allomancers can do with Pewter and
(3)  the Allomantic time-based  metal Atium can be used to store age (a time-based human attribute)

all seem too much to be a coincidence.  Perhaps in some way the powers associated with a metal are intrinsic, but the ways of accessing them are different?

Anyway, I strongly suspect that the Hemalurgical system uses the exact same metals and alloys.  It would be a nice, clean way of interrelating the magic systems.

In addition, we know that somehow the mists are related to the magic systems.  It's no wonder they have something in common.
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Miyabi

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #253 on: August 01, 2008, 05:03:42 PM »
I can't help but suspect that in some very deep sense, all of the magic systems are connected or have similar foundations.  The fact that

(1) two of the systems are known to use the exact same metals with the exact same alloys and
(2) there seems to be a connection between what Feruchemists can do with Pewter and Allomancers can do with Pewter and
(3)  the Allomantic time-based  metal Atium can be used to store age (a time-based human attribute)

all seem too much to be a coincidence.  Perhaps in some way the powers associated with a metal are intrinsic, but the ways of accessing them are different?

Anyway, I strongly suspect that the Hemalurgical system uses the exact same metals and alloys.  It would be a nice, clean way of interrelating the magic systems.

In addition, we know that somehow the mists are related to the magic systems.  It's no wonder they have something in common.
The only problem with this is that Brandon himself said that they are all different and NOT connected, which kinda throws a lot of this off kilter.
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Czanos

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #254 on: August 01, 2008, 05:57:07 PM »
Except for the mists. He said that had something to do with the foundation of the whole world and the magic systems.

As for the rest, I realize it could have been for simplicity's sake, but I was wondering if there was a deeper reasoning behind it. Guess I'll have to wait until the last annotation of Hero of Ages to know for sure.
I came because I heard stories, tales of a lengendary man.
A man who was known as the Lord of the Mists, a man they named Survivor.
A man called Hope.