Author Topic: Ruin and Preservation  (Read 43252 times)

bhthomas

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #150 on: June 24, 2008, 09:24:32 PM »
So i just finished MB2 and have a few questions about all this. First when alendi and TLR went to the well of ascension was that the first time that it had happened. If not, and if it was preservation that was in the well, would that mean the world that they lived in was influenced more by ruin. This makes me think that it couldnt of been preservation in the well then.If this wasn't the first time that ruin or preservation was fighting to keep away/bring some one to the WOA how many times has it been done before. If this was the first time how did these two powers come to control the world like they did.
 The mist spirit(whether or not it is preservation or a servant of some sort) was trying to stop them from using the well but failing that wanted the power used instead of set free. Does this mean that being trapped in the well gives the opposite power to whoever uses it instead of lets it go.But that would mean the mist spirit would want it used instead of as a last resort so im not sure what im saying here.

Im still a novice at making these theories up so you professionals feel free to correct me.

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #151 on: July 10, 2008, 10:28:50 PM »
Ok, I'm continueing on from the hemalurgy thread.  Sorry for those who have already read there, this first paragrpah is a short recap
So basically, to sum things up, since the mists area sort of neutral force between Ruin and Preservation, it doesn't quite make sense that the mists pull away from hemalrugists who are of only Ruin, when Ruin is just as influential (if not more- the deepness) as preservation is.  So I began wondering, what if the mists are of balance and they only pull away from Hemalurgist because they are only of one of the powers at one particualr time (only Ruin or only Preservation), and it pulls towards allomancers, because they are balanced between the two.

That's my first thought, the second one is, I've been going on about how Prservation is trapped in teh mists ( the mist psirit) well if the mists are neutral, why would Preservation be trapped, then I thought to myself, maybe PResrvation is trapped in something else, something that is of Ruin, and is chaotic thus can limit Preseration influence, and I had it: what if Preservatio nis trapped inside the body of a person, and is passed from mother to daughter or father to son, adn son on!  Human are of Ruin right?  What if one of the heroes is hiding preservation, and the only way to get preservation out and restore balance is to kill the person, wouldn't that be awful.  What if it's Vin, and that's why she;s so powerful at allomancy, she has some sort of higher bieng inside her!  Her mother was hearing the Voice of PReservation that she once had, and the earing was her way of passing the "spirit" on to Vin.  Remember, the descritption says Elend and Vin can't discusss their plans to stop Ruin, because then he will find out, so they have to keep things to themselves.  What if Elend is the Hero of Ages, and the only way to stop Ruin is to bring balance, thus Preservation msut be freed as well, and Vin and/or elend figure this out, and Elend must kill Vin to save the world, and he can;t even talk to her about it ,and she can;t tell him it's all right because then Ruin will find out!

Wow, sorry guys that is kind of far fetched.  I was really tired last night when I thought this up, sorry!  I hope it at least gives you gusy someting to think about!
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JCHancey

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #152 on: July 10, 2008, 10:37:13 PM »
It sounds legit, but if that were the case wouldn't the being of Ruin/Preservation go and capture Vin/Elend so they can't be killed?
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Reaves

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #153 on: July 10, 2008, 11:25:16 PM »
So basically, to sum things up, since the mists area sort of neutral force between Ruin and Preservation, it doesn't quite make sense that the mists pull away from hemalrugists who are of only Ruin, when Ruin is just as influential (if not more- the deepness) as preservation is.  So I began wondering, what if the mists are of balance and they only pull away from Hemalurgist because they are only of one of the powers at one particualr time (only Ruin or only Preservation), and it pulls towards allomancers, because they are balanced between the two.
Well it doesn't make sense for a neutral or balanced power to attract something. Also, i do not believe the appearance of mists pulling towards or pushing away from an allomancer or hemalurgist is constant. In other words, i think they have to be actually using their abilities for the mists to react.
Support for this would be:
-at times Vin attracts the mists, at times she repels. Although i cannot give specific quotes i believe this to be the case; can anyone confirm or deny?
-uh, thats about it.

My theory is that when a hemalurgist appears to be 'repelling' the mists, he is actually burning them. First of all it would not make much sense to 'burn' your own blood as some people seem to be suggesting as it would weaken you, maybe even causing you to pass out. At several points in the book Vin refers to 'burning' the mists.
Quote from: VegasDev
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JCHancey

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #154 on: July 11, 2008, 12:35:20 AM »
when does she refer to burning the mists? i can only think of one time that has happened. I like the accessing the reservoir in the blood, makes more sense and links all the magic systems yet keeps them completely different 
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Reaves

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #155 on: July 11, 2008, 12:44:50 AM »
Unfortunately i do not even own MB2 !!!??? so i cannot look up quotes...let me see if i can find them in another of my posts...
OK

QUOTE
While she was fighting him, she drew upon the mists somehow, burning them in place of metals.

QUOTE
That day, they (the mists) had fueled her Allomancy, giving her a strength they shouldn't have had.

There is more but as i said i cannot look them up :( :(

This whole discussion was on page 13 of the Comprehensive Hemalurgy thread http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=5745.msg121892#msg121892

In this discussion i had actually believed burning the mists was a function of allomancy, but as the only times we see mist being repelled is from a hemalurgist...it kinda rules out that idea.
uh, yeah
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 12:56:08 AM by Reaves »
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

JCHancey

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #156 on: July 11, 2008, 12:57:06 AM »
Both those quotes refer to when she is facing TLR. She attempts to burn them in WoA but can't.
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Reaves

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #157 on: July 11, 2008, 01:08:22 AM »
No but she does repel the mists. I believe that when a hemalurgist appears to be repelling the mists, that is actually when he/she is burning them. The effect would look much the same i think. Also perhaps Allomancy feeds the mist, which is why the mists follow them when they use their abilities.
When you burn wood on a fire, the carbon in the wood turns to smoke. It is the same general effect for an Allomancer; as they burn metals, they give off mist as a byproduct.

The only major hole in this theory is the fact that Vin's earring seems to stop her from burning the mists. She doesn't have it when she fights TLR, but she is wearing it during MB2, when she cannot burn the mists. If the earring is hemalurgical, and burning mists is hemalurgical, why can she not do both at the same time?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 01:11:19 AM by Reaves »
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

JCHancey

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #158 on: July 11, 2008, 01:10:10 AM »
The mists existed before allomancy, that much we know. If Vin had been burning the mists when they were being repelled from her I'm sure she would have said something about it in the book.
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Andrew the Great

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #159 on: July 11, 2008, 01:53:38 AM »
I think the problem is that we are thinking of the mists as a neutral force. I suggest that rather than think of them thus, we think of them as follows. Whichever force has more freedom at the time has more control over the mists.

So, Deepness mists = Ruin, and would theoretically be attracted to hemalurgists, while repelling allomancers.

And, Lord Ruler Mists = Preservation, and therefore is attracted to allomancy and repelled from hemalurgy.

We haven't seen any of this so far, but then again, we haven't really seen anything of the deepness mists.

A lot of this was discussed on page 13 of the hemalurgy thread, so if you haven't, go read there. Coma provided a link. Let's not get into the discussion on the acidity of saliva that resulted last time.
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JCHancey

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #160 on: July 11, 2008, 02:28:04 AM »
heh that one made me chuckle.. So I have a new crazy theory. From what we know when TLR went into the well Mistborn came about as a result. So what if this has happened 2 times before? Someone had gone in took the power for themselves, creating Feruchemy and Hemalurgy earlier, instead of freeing Ruin.
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Czanos

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #161 on: July 11, 2008, 03:30:25 AM »
I'm more inclined to think that Hemalurgy is the newest of the magic systems. Perhaps the Lord Ruler made Hemalurgy for his Inquisitors, and just happened upon Allomancy while he was doing it.
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JCHancey

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #162 on: July 11, 2008, 04:25:16 AM »
I still think Alendi had hemalurgical piercings, hence the terrisman hatred hence him hearing the wells pulsing.
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Miyabi

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #163 on: July 11, 2008, 04:31:13 AM »
heh that one made me chuckle.. So I have a new crazy theory. From what we know when TLR went into the well Mistborn came about as a result. So what if this has happened 2 times before? Someone had gone in took the power for themselves, creating Feruchemy and Hemalurgy earlier, instead of freeing Ruin.
:0  This  is an interesting theory!  I REALLY like that thought.
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Qarlin

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #164 on: July 11, 2008, 05:54:48 AM »
Records say no Allomancy before TLR, but those records could have been changed. Or lost. All three magics COULD have existed before the ascension. Though if that was the case, why would Ruin hide it?

And, in the prologue, it mentions that Ruin still couldn't affect the world directly, because of some shield that was blanketing it. Like the mists. Possibly.