Author Topic: Ruin and Preservation  (Read 43256 times)

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #135 on: June 03, 2008, 01:33:46 AM »
 I don't think the mist spirit is preservation anymore, in one annotation, I forget which, Brandon mentions that he originally had multiple mist spirits, and then he changed it to be only one, that could be because he wanted it to be presrevation, but I don't think that's the case.  Maybe the Mist Spirit is a servant of Preservation, just as the "hero", thought manipulated, is essentially a servant of ruin, as are the inquisitors.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #136 on: June 03, 2008, 03:05:16 AM »
I do not think the Mist Spirit is Preservation. It may be an agent of Preservation, but not the big P itself. Why? Because it can't talk. We have heard what we think is Ruin in people's heads several times (Zane, possibly Inquisitors, possibly Vin)
and we have heard Preservation talk to Sazed. However, there have been several times when it would have been to the Mist Spirit's advantage to say something mentally (when Sazed discovers the torn pieces of manuscript, when Vin is in the Well) but it couldn't.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #137 on: June 03, 2008, 03:47:01 AM »
I've never bought that the mist spirit is itself preservation. It doesn't seem powerful enough. Think about Ruin, and Preservation is going to be its opposite, equal in power. I always thought it was some sort of manifestation of preservation. Possible a servant of some sort.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #138 on: June 06, 2008, 11:26:01 PM »
Yes, that sounds right, although it could be that Preservation is weakend somehow, jsut as Ruin was present in the well, and we don't know for sure that the voice in Saed's head is Preservation, but...
I still think the mist spirit is more of a servant or agent of preservation.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #139 on: June 15, 2008, 08:36:09 AM »
Forgive me first of all if I'm restating anything, just read the Hermalurgy forum thing and found myself quite excited about this theory

Pertaining to Ruin or Preservation being released.. I think that he didn't release them, just switched them out, and what was in the mists already (when LR went to WoA) was Ruin. In the books I think (sorry, don't have them on me  :-\) it states the the LR changed the land, that would not be Preservation, but Ruin. By attempting to kill off all the Terris Keepers (Preserving histories in their metalminds) would also be Ruin.  So I guess what I'm trying to say is that Ruin was in the mists, LR goes to well, switches them, brief control over Ruin, makes the world to his liking, but also to Ruins.
The mists must be an entity to be controlled by either Preservation or Ruin. I would say that the mists are the container for Ruin or Preservation, whichever is not in the WoA. When LR took the power, he wasn't releasing anything, just switching them out. With that he took Ruin out of the mists, into the well, and partly into himself, and released Preservation into the mists. I guess that would also mean that the LR himself was the key to unlock the WoA and allow the Hero (perverted by the ideas of Ruin) to release Ruin into the world. Hence when Vin killed LR both Ruin and Preservation were fighting for control of the mists. In the well they can't do anything other than contact with people who are Hemalurgists. When Vin went into the WoA she released Ruin. Trouble there is that she released it with Preservation in the world already. That would explain the random killings, nothing on the scale we see back during the Deepness. Both Preservation and Ruin are out there now, fighting for control of the one thing they can control not being in the WoA, the mists.
Summary: LR goes into WoA, switches Preservation out of WoA for Ruin, becomes the key to allowing Ruin to "touch" hermalugists, Vin goes into WoA and releases Ruin into the mists, now Ruin and Preservation battle royal for control.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #140 on: June 17, 2008, 01:05:01 AM »
Though, it could be that he was trying to get rid of the Terris Keepers because their knowledge was corruptible by Ruin.

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #141 on: June 17, 2008, 01:29:58 AM »
Though, it could be that he was trying to get rid of the Terris Keepers because their knowledge was corruptible by Ruin.

The correct term--at least originally after the Ascension--would be Worldbringer. Your explanation, however, could in fact be very true. I always thought it was because the LR didn't want Feruchemy and Allomancy to mix. But there's no reason why the Lord Ruler would not have done the same thing to reduce Ruin's power over the world. By defeating Feruchemy, you defeat one more powerful aspect of Ruin's authority.

So I like that theory very much :D.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #142 on: June 17, 2008, 07:55:30 PM »
You might want to read the sympathetic lord ruler thread, I think's there's some stuff like that there as well.

I like your theory, but I think it might be the opposite, the lord Ruler released Preservation, and trapped Ruin, for we know that it is Ruin that Vin released from the well, unless that is what you are syaing, and I misunderstood. 
On the other thread we were discussing if myabe the Lord Ruler was "preserving," the world in order to prevent chaos, which would strengthen Ruin, meaning that the state of the world affects who is more powerful: Ruin or Preservation.  When the Lord Ruler kept things STable, Ruin was weak, but as soon as he died, the world became Chaotic, and Ruin gained power. 
Perhaps there is some way to mesh my and your theory together, because I like them bothe so much !

The only hole I can see in this is that, suppposedly, the lord ruler set nothing free, beacuse he took the power instead of giving it away, indicating it is the same entity trapped in the well now as it was then.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #143 on: June 17, 2008, 08:50:06 PM »
I personally feel that the mists are not holding ruin or preservation, but are a reflection of who has more power. If ruin has more power, the mists do Ruinish things. If preservation has more power, the mists do Preservationish things. But I do quite like your theory. 

Well, that's not quite right. I believe the mists are controlled by Ruin and Preservation. Thus, whoever has more power at the time controls what the mists do. There we go. That's a little better.

The correct term--at least originally after the Ascension--would be Worldbringer.

Really? I thought the Worldbringers were like the heads of the Terris Religion. The Keepers were an Entirely separate branch of the Terris people that started shortly after the Ascension in the hope of keeping the world's knowledge and recovering the knowledge that had been lost. While the Worldbringers may have been Feruchemists, they were not necessarily keepers. The Keepers also, may have previously been Worldbringers, but it seems likely that the Lord Ruler would have killed the Worldbringers when destroying his own religion. Anyway, I could be wrong, but that's what I always thought.
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JCHancey

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #144 on: June 17, 2008, 11:44:06 PM »
Tensoon states to Vin that you are of ruin... I think that he is not referring to the human race but could be referring to the mistborn.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #145 on: June 18, 2008, 07:57:39 PM »
Tensoon states to Vin that you are of ruin... I think that he is not referring to the human race but could be referring to the mistborn.

It seems to me he is talking about the entire human race, because that's the context for the whole discussion.  He goes on to say that kandra believe humans will kill each other off, using koloss as their pawns.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #146 on: June 18, 2008, 08:28:12 PM »
And besides, if mistborn were of ruin, wouldn't they repel the mists, like hemalurgits?  I'm pretty sure hemalurgists aren't of preservation, so if mistborn are either the opposite, or perhaps at least different.  I'm pretty sure TenSoon was talking about humans.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #147 on: June 19, 2008, 01:14:48 AM »
just thought i'd throw that out there.. :)
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #148 on: June 19, 2008, 06:43:01 AM »
The correct term--at least originally after the Ascension--would be Worldbringer.

Really? I thought the Worldbringers were like the heads of the Terris Religion. The Keepers were an Entirely separate branch of the Terris people that started shortly after the Ascension in the hope of keeping the world's knowledge and recovering the knowledge that had been lost. While the Worldbringers may have been Feruchemists, they were not necessarily keepers. The Keepers also, may have previously been Worldbringers, but it seems likely that the Lord Ruler would have killed the Worldbringers when destroying his own religion. Anyway, I could be wrong, but that's what I always thought.

No, the Keepers were created in the 2nd Century, far after the Lord Ruler killed off the Worldbringers. They are two different things.

And now, I see that my phrase was badly... phrased. What I said was "The correct term--at least originally after the Ascension--would be Worldbringer.". Obviously, after a while, the Worldbringers would have been killed by the Lord Ruler. However, what I meant was that in the immediate sense after Rashek's Ascension, there weren't Keepers, but Worldbringers. (Because Keepers are 2nd century and on).

On a different note, the powers inside the Well cannot be switching. Before the Ascension, Ruin was inside it. This current "age", let's call it, where Vin goes to the Well, still had Ruin inside of it. There's no switching involved.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #149 on: June 19, 2008, 05:05:52 PM »
On a different note, the powers inside the Well cannot be switching. Before the Ascension, Ruin was inside it. This current "age", let's call it, where Vin goes to the Well, still had Ruin inside of it. There's no switching involved.

Not necessarily. They didn't switch this time, that doesn't mean that they can't switch. And the point that they didn't switch is entirely speculation, unless we have had definitive confirmation that the power the Lord Ruler used was Ruin, which I don't recall.

And even if it has been confirmed, the Lord Ruler used the power, while Vin let it go. Because Vin let it go, it may switch to Preservation in the well the next time around.
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