Author Topic: Ruin and Preservation  (Read 43197 times)

Vintage

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #120 on: May 09, 2008, 12:32:16 AM »
Andrew, how could you possibly expect one of those Elantrian to remember who wrote what about him ?! No, seriously, we  do need quotes if we are going to do serious (hum) theory here...  ;) Oh ! I think I can't wait till Euol is done with AMoL to propose to help him do the Ideal Seek version of Mistborn. It is too frustrating !
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 12:34:13 AM by Vintage »

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #121 on: May 09, 2008, 02:34:53 AM »
It's just something that jumped out at me in my reread, I know the theory definately has holes, It was just a thought, and I wanted to see what you guys thought about it.
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Vintage

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #122 on: May 14, 2008, 01:26:22 AM »
Well, I guess it's the most appropriate topic to present this.

I was reading Darxbane saying he did not believe that the well's power was of Ruin. I myself would love to believe it. But things keep on jumping in my eyes and that bugs me quite a bit !

First, in re-reading again the fight between Sazed and Marsh I find this :

Quote
"Why did you come ?" Marsh whispered as Sazed struggled to his knees. "Everything was going so well." He watched with iron eyes as Sazed slowly crawled away.

Now that doesn't tell much of my thinking but it was then that I went backwards a bit. When Sazed arrives at the opening Vin made in the wall, Marsh is there just like keeping the entrance. Not just like, he is keeping the entrance and then, seeing Sazed he tells us he wish he would understand why he had to kill Sazed.

To me, wether the well's power is Ruin or Preservation (and to me preservation means life, and not static), I know it is evil. No, I am not bringing this into discussing good and evil, please.

Quote
The cavern continued to shake, dust and chips falling from the ceiling. And then, in a moment of surreal clarity, Vin heard a single, distinct sentence ringing in her mind.

I am FREE !

Sentence has two different meaning, doesn't it ? It means what I am writing right now. Something that starts with a capital letter and ends by a dot. But there is that other one, no ? The one that means condemnation ? If it's that one, then the well's power is evil and more still, Marsh is manipulated by it, whatever it is. Forget about chaos and all the rest. How could life pronounce a sentence of death ?

Any thoughts on these last ramblings ?

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #123 on: May 14, 2008, 07:31:08 AM »
The 'sentence' that's being referred to is the linguistic kind, based on the context. It's a good catch, but stretching the imagination a bit far. Could it be that the Well is a balancing mechanism, and at the end of a millenia, if the current spirit has gone too far, you just release the other one to do it's thing?
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darxbane

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #124 on: May 14, 2008, 02:19:43 PM »
Vintage,
To clarify my statement, I believe that the power Vin and TLR absorbed was what was imprisoning Ruin, or more specifically, what could free Ruin.  Giving the power up to the void destroyed whatever kept Ruin trapped, allowing It to go free.  The first quote you put down is interesting, as it alludes to both eye spikes being Iron.  This is confusing me, as I could have sworn that Vin notices Kar's spikes to be two different metals.  Maybe it is just easier to call them iron in this context, but I could just be "misremembering".
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #125 on: May 14, 2008, 07:08:12 PM »
Ruin is altering your copperminds, my friend. I also could have sworn that they were two metals in their eyes (Iron and Steel, if my devious theories prove correct), but I think your explanation of the power they absorb is a bit skeletal. In my mind it's got to have some further purpose, and I like the theory of how it makes you DM of the world temporarily; doesn't Vin gain the ability to see everything when she's touching it? I really need to reread it...
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darxbane

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #126 on: May 14, 2008, 09:09:33 PM »
The power itself may have other purposes, but imprisoning Ruin seemed to be its primary function.  The rest is just speculation, which is fun, but I don't have anything to offer right now.
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #127 on: May 16, 2008, 06:27:40 AM »
I'm telling you, the power of creation (ruin's opposite) placed in the well by preservation to keep him there.
I'm sticking to that theory until someone proves me wrong.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #128 on: May 21, 2008, 05:59:50 AM »
Order and Entropy, Life and Death, Creation and Destruction, Good and Evil (already ruled out)

Personally, I'm leaning towards Order and Entropy. Or Creation/Destruction. Well okay, I can even see it being all three.

And I agree with Comatose, Ruin is trapped by Preservations power. That's why it had to be Vin or someone else not overly Hemalurgical to hear the Well's pulsing, but not be burned away by the power of the well. So it would be the power of Preservation TLR touched, since that's what held Ruin in the Well.

Andrew the Great

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #129 on: May 21, 2008, 01:57:46 PM »
I tend to lean toward order and entropy, or possibly life and death. I also agree Preservation is what trapped Ruin. It makes sense, and there really isn't any need to complicate the books by inventing yet another power.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #130 on: May 21, 2008, 05:54:47 PM »
Oh, absolutely not. Brandon said in his annotations that there are only two powers, so if anyone creates a theory that forms a third "force", we have confirmation from Brandon that that person is wrong.

Now, I just had an interesting thought. In Mistborn1, we don't see Ruin making these really big switches in anything (my loose evidence to support that is that the Logbook was not altered to our knowledge in MB1). The mists don't kill, either, which is the biggest evidence that Ruin was sealed during the Lord Ruler's time.

However, there is something else that happens. There isn't the Mist Spirit. Not once in MB1 do we see a ghost in the mist that has an allomantic pulse.

So, logically speaking, whatever the Lord Ruler did to keep Ruin at bay also keeps the mist spirit at bay--ie, Preservation.
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Andrew the Great

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #131 on: May 21, 2008, 06:59:37 PM »
Assuming of course, that the mist spirit is preservation...which we don't know.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #132 on: June 01, 2008, 07:26:15 PM »
Feel free to shoot this down, just another random thought, what if the mist spirit is the lord ruler?  I know the y existed at the same time back in alendi's day, but maybe that mist spirit vanished once there was no danger of ruin being released, and now that there is danger again the lord ruler replaced that old spirit.  Doesn't really make sense, but waht do you guys think of it??
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Vintage

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #133 on: June 01, 2008, 08:37:32 PM »
Well, I believe, as you must imagine, that the Mist Spirit cannot be TLR's since it dit exist before TLR himself, before his killing of Alendi, before his ascension. If it was so, how would you explain that the Mist Spirit tries to kill Alendi's friend while Rashek is not yet in any type of power and obviously is quite alive ?

...

The most craziest idea pass by my head. Let's divide your idea Comatose. What would have happen if when the Lord Ruler took the power for himself... the power got in him ? Let's say, lacking words here, he swallowed or absorbed the Mist Spirit while Ruin was trapped by the Well ? He gets killed. Night comes. The Mist Spirit is freed again and mixes with the mists...

Need sleep lol

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #134 on: June 02, 2008, 11:27:19 PM »
Feel free to shoot this down, just another random thought, what if the mist spirit is the lord ruler?  I know the y existed at the same time back in alendi's day, but maybe that mist spirit vanished once there was no danger of ruin being released, and now that there is danger again the lord ruler replaced that old spirit.  Doesn't really make sense, but waht do you guys think of it??


It seems to me that the most likely guess for the Mist Spirit is Preservation.   First, we can assume that Preservation and Ruin are opposites.  It seems like Ruin is an actual entity of some sort, since he talks and escapes.  Not quite a person, but also not purely a force.  Something in between.  if that's the case, it's likely that Preservation is something similar.

We also know that the spirit seems to want to keep people away from the Well, which is where Ruin escapes from.  If they are opposites, it would make sense that Preservation would be trying to prevent people from going there.

I think all that is fairly well supported, but there is also some more "crazy" links that can be made. 

First, the Mist Spirit seems to know what will make Elend a Mistborn.  There is an obvious connection between Mist Spirit and Mistborn and the Mist.

If you take the simple route, and just tie all that togeather.  It would mean that Preservation is the Mist Spirit, the Mist Spirit is also the Mist, and Mistborn are closely related to all that.  So that also means Preservation is the mists (or has something to do with it) and Mistborn are part of Preservation.