Author Topic: Ruin and Preservation  (Read 43015 times)

Comatose

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2008, 09:39:25 PM »
Like I said, it only works if we assume the mists only kill during the day, which reminds me, in the final few chapters when  Vin is releasing Ruin, is it night or day?  I distinctly remember mists killing people at that part, and that could through my whole theory out the window.
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Shost

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2008, 12:55:14 AM »
i'm actually pretty sure that was at night. it mentions that most of those people were part of the church of the survivor who believed that it was safe to go out at night. so i'm pretty sure that they were out at night and were still getting killed.

but i think there is definately some connection between Preservation and the mists though. i mean He is the 'mist-spirit' after all.

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2008, 01:10:17 AM »
It's strange. The mists seem to be something both Ruin (through killing) and Preservation (through the mist spirit) can use. I wonder why that is, exactly? I mean, both forces are essentially opposites, so why are they both wielding the mists?
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2008, 05:57:49 AM »
i guess that would be the $60,000 question wouldn't it?

darxbane

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2008, 06:15:31 PM »
Something is definitely missing here.  The most confusing thing about the alleged mist killings is how random and arbitrary the victims seem to be.  Right behind that is how it only seems to happen away from Luthadel, except at the very end of the book.  Finally, not everyone who is attacked dies.  You would think that if Ruin was using the mists to kill It wouldn't screw it up so often.  What if the deaths from the mists are not related to Ruin itself?  Maybe (and this is a WILD theory) the people who die can unknowingly draw on the power of the mists.  When they do, they can't control it and it kills them.  Crazy, huh?  Must be Monday! 
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2008, 06:20:00 PM »
I would more likely attribute to the "sickness" and killings from the dichotomy of Ruin vs. Preservation. I mean, if they are opposing forces, maybe they are fighting for which ones live or die? I dunno. My theory needs work.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2008, 07:09:51 PM »
when i read it i was kinda hoping that the mists were Preservation and the killings were like the spirit stabbing Elend. i half expected the killings to stop when the spirit's plan failed. course that wen't out the window when they were still going on after the whole well scene was over.  there is definately some connection between the mists and both Ruin and Preservation and it's annoying me that i can't figure it out...

darxbane

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2008, 08:26:42 PM »
The mist spirit seems to have nothing to do with the mist killings.  The people found dead have no marks on them at all.  It's almost as if they die of fear.  There have been three physical altercations with what we know as the Mist Spirit and people:  Alendi's friend, who was stabbed but not killed, Elend, who was stabbed and would have died without Allomantic intervention, and Vin, who felt something grab her, then she fell off the building she was on and her arm felt ice cold for a short time.  Her situation was different from the other two, both in that she was not physically wounded, and that the spirit vanished shortly before she was attacked.  This could mean that two (or more) entities inhabit the mists.  Anything I am missing?
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2008, 10:25:44 PM »
thats a pretty good summary darxbane. but i think is obvious that the mist spirit inhabits the mists. but is he alone? if not is it Ruin or something(one) that we don't know about yet?

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2008, 12:08:44 AM »
It has been stated several times that the mists repsond to allomancy and hemalurgy, so perhaps this "Mist Magic" for lack of a better terms, is some advanced form of allomancy, or hemalurgy, or something completely different that only Preservation and Ruin have learned how to use.  With allomancer, both the good and bad sides use allomancy, why can't both spirits use the same sort of magic.  The mists could just be the medium, just as metals are the medium for allomancy.
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darxbane

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2008, 05:05:44 PM »
That has potential.  One thing to point out:  The three magic systems are unique in their interactions with the mists.  The mists are attracted to allomancers, repelled by Hemallurgists, and seem to not care one way or the other for Feruchemists.  Your point is good, though.  At least I have been assuming that, since Ruin can influence people who have Hemallurgy metals, that it would be an opposing force to the mists.  That may not be the case, as it can also influence metal minds, which seem to have nothing to do with the mists at all.  The only thing I can think of that would preclude Ruin from using the mists is that Ruin seems to be unable to influence Allomancy, which is most closely associated with the mists.  Also, the Mist spirit actually uses Allomancy, or at least appears to.  Is it October yet?
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2008, 06:26:22 PM »
Dear lord, by the time it comes October, we'll have figured out the whole book. Or, at the very least, come up with some very convincing theories that sound good enough to be in the book.

I like where this is going. Mists used for Allomancy, and Ruin and Preservation acting through it? That's brilliant. And if Vin's experience has taught us anything, it's that you can use the mists for Allomancy. The triad of magic systems interacting with the mists (and Feruchemy not caring either way), also brilliant. Now we are on the right track: discussing how Ruin/Preservation are related to the magics. Very good indeed.

There's an interesting correlation, though. Feruchemy, perhaps, does not affect the mists because it existed before the Ascension. The Worldbringers stored their prophecies in metalminds.  However, Allomancers didn't exist before the Ascension at all. If Hemalurgy is like some opposite Allomancy, or something, it could be a logical conclusion that Hemalurgists, whatever they may be, did not exist before the Ascension, either.

Yet the mists did exist before the Ascension, or at least it is heavily implied/theorized that they did. Perhaps Allomancy is somehow derived from the mists, which would mean that it is derived by either Ruin or Preservation.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2008, 08:11:42 PM »
The very beginning of chapter 22 in WoA talks about the mists being both Stability and Chaos.  Ruin-Chaos, Preservation-Stability.  That seems to fit doesn't it?
I was also wondering what the mists are, are they really simply water vapour, or are they something else.  Also, I'm guessing the Kandra, Mistwraiths, and Koloss fit in to the equation somehow.  TenSoon says the Kandra, are creatures of Preservation, and Humans are of Ruin.  What are Koloss and Mistwraith of then.  We know they are all related somehow.  I also noticed that there are three magic systems and three Mist Creatures (I'm lumping Koloss into this categry even thought they have little to do with mists). 
I like the idea of the different Magic systems reacting with them mists in different ways.  It's almost like magnets, hemalurgy pushing, allomancy pulling, feruchemy neutral. 
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darxbane

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2008, 09:46:06 PM »
That's a good find.  I have some rereading to do.  I still think there is something we're missing, though.  Koloss and Kandra are both creations of the LordRuler.  Mistwraiths may be as well.  How they were created?  I don't think that detail is available yet, but the mists could very well be a factor in their creation.
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2008, 12:02:14 AM »
Could the mists be Gaseous Metal???
"Look, I'm just trying to change the world, okay?  I don't have time for a grudge match with every poser in a parka!"
- Dr. Horrible

"There's always another secret..."
- Kelsier