Ruin and Preservation

[JCHancey]

I'm not saying they NEED bodies, I'm saying Preservation is TRAPPED inside of a body like Ruin was in teh well, but PReservation still has some influence, even from it's prison (like Ruin did, even before he was released: he had a considerable amount of influence: Change most things written not in metal, control inquisitors almost completeley, and of course, make the deepness come back, I'm guessing that even trapped, PReservation is far from powerless, and is still able to fight Ruin, if they were both FREE, there would be balance, and Ruin wouldn't have the extreme amount of power that he has now, which mean Preservation must be trapped.  Ruin needs to find the body PReservation is trapped in, and use it to destroy PReservation (which I'm not sure he can do) or channel it into the body of a thing he can have complete control over, thus controlling preservation as well (inquisitors).

I can dig this. It makes sense and in the end it's going to be a battle between Preservation and Ruin for... control of the mists?

[Reaves]

What could Ruin need? Preservation, I think, is the mist that's protecting the world from Ruin, but what would Ruin need to take control?

why do you think the mist is protecting the world? From my understanding it is feared by skaa and has actually begun killing them in some cases. Unless you think Ruin already has control of them?

[Qarlin]

Perhaps Ruin has control in part. There are desert wastelands just outside where the mist is, and away from the influence of the ashmounts. And I was trying to think what else is covering the world like a blanket, protecting it from Ruin's direct influence? The only things I can come up with are the mists, and the ashmounts.

[Comatose]

I think the mists and perhaps the ashmounts, are neutral forces that both Ruin and Preservation can use!

[Qarlin]

Then is it just Preservation that's protecting the world from Ruin's direct influence? Marsh said it's like a blanket shielding the world. I mean it could be, I'm just wondering if there's a more (even if slightly more) physical presence to Preservation's protection.

EDIT: Not that I'm disagreeing with you, I just wonder.

[Miyabi]

I still think they need to have a physical body in order to affect the physical plain.

[Qarlin]

I'll agree with that. That works with Final Empire Prime, though we don't know how much of that he kept...

[VegasDev]

She can’t even discuss it with Elend lest Ruin learn their plans!

Just thought I would throw this out there again for this current discussion. Either Ruin has really good hearing, can read minds or ends up inhabiting Elend.....

[Reaves]

i think its more that they don't know Ruins capabilities. They have no idea if it is omniscient or what it might be doing at the time. I don't think it would be unreasonable for it to focus on Vin, as it has vested interests in learning any plans she may have (after all, she is the one who ends up freeing Ruin)

[Comatose]

And he can't read minds, that's the whole point, as long as they keep their plans in their heads, he doesn't know about it, but if he can see and change everything on paper or in metal mind, I think that equals he can probably also hear most things as well, not that he's listening at all times, we know from Marsh's account that Ruin can't be absolutely everywhere at once, his influence comes and goes!  They just don't know when he's watching and when he;s not!

[Qarlin]

But while he can't be everywhere at once, he does seem to be able to arrive everywhere pretty instantaneously, and that can be about the same thing.

[Comatose]

Exactly why Vin and Elend have to be careful with what they say to eachother

[Qarlin]

No telepathy powers here. Too bad; might have helped, assuming Ruin couldn't have heard thought transmissions...

[VegasDev]

True, however the part that sticks out to me is the fact that Elend has been singled out in that quote. Sure, I could be reading too much into it, but if it said 'She can't even discuss it with Sazed lest ruin learn their plans!' there would be no doubt about the quote.

[Comatose]

Perhaps it is jsut referring to the fact that Elend is the one whom she needs to talk to the most about.  But I agree it is suspicous.
By the way, I posted some interesting logbook and steel plate findings on the Vin's Mom thread!