So, apparently Dumbledore is gay.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

yes, phaz, that is the case. Something I'm very aware of

And I think these people are insane. Pick up another book, people. I know Shakespeare scholars who do less research on their subject of interest than Potter fans. And you will never convince me that Potter is worth that level of examination.

It's not just Potter either. The idiots who do this about Star Wars are just as frightening -- though granted most of their theories are based on things that are actually in a movie or a book not just tucked in a file box somewhere and ultimately determined unnecessary to the story.

[charity]

I'm curious Saint E.
You don't like Jordan, you sound like your not too interested in Rowling (other than movies your wife's goes to without you  )... so what do you like to read?

Or am I making a wrong assumption about you?

[Nessa]

SE likes to read comics, and .... um.... I think that's about it.

[charity]

ah.  that explains why Jordan's details are infuriating....

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

woah woah woah woah here.

I'm trying to not be offended here. So we'll start with the stuff where you're just mislead. I did actually enjoy all 7 Harry Potter books. I haven't enjoyed a lick of the fan fiction or spurious external crap she's done. And very little of the fan art I've seen.

I read quite a bit more than comics.  My favorite book less than 400 years old is Graham Greene's The Power and the Glory. However, my favorite fiction book ever is El Ingenioso Hidalgo Don Quijote. And I'm a *huge* fan of William Shakespeare. I just finished George R. R. Martin's second book (A Clash of Kings and I dove straight into The Princess Bride -- the novel, not the movie. Lest you think I'm too hoity toity and only read literary fiction (though I'm not sure TPB counts as literary) I've dabbled in and enjoyed a lot of the popular subgenres of speculative fiction as well, including bad military fiction (though good military fiction, like Starship Troopers is considerably better) and vampires. There are a number of YA books I love, though I'm not sure where the line is between that and teens, I'm sure Stacer will correct me if I categorized The Dark Is Rising  and the Prydain Chronicles incorrectly, because those were fantastic series.

HOWEVER

What burns my biscuit is the apparently disparaging remark you've just made about comics. What was the last comic you read? Have you read anything Peter David wrote? Or Mark Waid? How about drawn by Alex Ross? You *cannot* read Kingdom Come or The Watchmen and come away telling me that they haven't created rich details and a complex setting. You may not like them, but good storytelling and interesting characters are *not* a problem with these books.

And, those are in the genre of Supers. I won't go into the non-fiction and non-supers fiction written by people like Art Spiegelman.

I don't like Jordan because he's boring, and he makes allusions that have nothing behind them.

Please tell me that your last post did not mean to imply that comics are beneath your notice. Because there's at least as much detail, "art" and quality in comic books than in any other genre of literature.

[Nessa]

Not me, certainlly, I like comics, and greatly enjoyed the usagi you recommended to me. I think what she meant is that Jordan is too long for someone of your tastes. And, well, you wouldn't be the only one to get annoyed by the length and detail.

[Phaz]

And you will never convince me that Potter is worth that level of examination.

It's not just Potter either. The idiots who do this about Star Wars are just as frightening -- though granted most of their theories are based on things that are actually in a movie or a book not just tucked in a file box somewhere and ultimately determined unnecessary to the story.

And you will never convince me that comics are worth any level of examination. 

I however, do understand that my preferences and tastes and interests aren't universal, and fully understand how someone else can think that comics are for more than the Sunday paper.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

And you will never convince me that comics are worth any level of examination. 

The difference being that I have looked at Harry Potter thoughtfully, whereas obviously you have never read any comics *other* than the Sunday paper.

How someone can categorically write off an entire category mystifies me. You've just said that there is no way that a worthwhile message can be told in pictures and words combined. You really want to make such a statement? I have no idea how to respond to that, because it's manifestly foolish.

[Spriggan]

I have to agree with SE here and I"m not even much of a comic fan, but some of the stuff I've read (Identity crisis, Kingdom Come) are on par, if not better, then some of the fiction I've read.  And lest face it, HP fan-dom is a little freaky.  The fact there were people selling books, and making money, about what the ending of book 7 was months before it came out shows that people take it too seriously.

I can't comment on Jordan or Rowling's since I've never read any of their stuff but I can say Tolkien is incredibly boring (at least the Hobbit is) because he spends too much time on details.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

And you will never convince me that comics are worth any level of examination.

That's like saying novels aren't worth any level of examination, or films aren't worth any level of examination.

I personally am fine with examination of Potter, as fine as I am with examination of pretty much anything. If you can get something out of it that someone else doesn't, bully for you.

[Phaz]

And you will never convince me that comics are worth any level of examination.

That's like saying novels aren't worth any level of examination, or films aren't worth any level of examination.

I personally am fine with examination of Potter, as fine as I am with examination of pretty much anything. If you can get something out of it that someone else doesn't, bully for you.

That's the point I was trying to make.

Comics hold no interest to me.  I've tried them, and didn't see what all the fuss was about.  To me they aren't worth examining at all, and no one could convince me otherwise.

However, I realize that is just me.  I'm not going to make a blanket statement saying they aren't worth examining for anyone, and anyone who spends time with them is 'wasting it.'

I happen to believe that people are free to enjoy reading/watching whatever it is they enjoy.  They might go into it to the point where I would consider it a little strange, but I'm not going to go as far as some (SE) saying that they are wrong for doing so.

Just because I don't see what all the fuss is about personally, doesn't mean that I don't acknowledge that the fuss exists and is ok.

IMO telling people that they are "insane" or "idiots" or "frightening" for liking something as much as they do is offensive, ignorant and just plain closed minded.  People enjoy things for different reasons.  If they find something that convinces them to start a band, write some fiction, create some art or even dress up like a wizard and go to a conference, more power to them.

I could just as easily say that I have been to baseball games, and I don't see anything that says it should be worth as much effort as keeping track of stats during the game and going to 80 games a season.  However, I wouldn't say that, because it would just be stupid to say so.  Because while I might not see that there is anything to justify focusing on baseball that much, obviously many others do.  For me to say they are wrong for doing so is just plain stupid.

[Fellfrosch]

How someone can categorically write off an entire category mystifies me.

Linguistically speaking, isn't "categorically" the only possible way to write off an entire category?

Sorry, not really adding anything, just ribbing SE.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

the ribbing tickles

The difference, Phaz, is you're writing of an entire medium of communication. May as well say that nobody can say anything meaningful to you via email. You may not be interested in finding it, but do you *really* believe that no one can say anything meaningful to you through a comic?

On the other hand, I'm writing off a very small subset of works. I don't think that just because you can find something to say about a subject means the subject is worth talking about. Some works *are* better than others. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy the lesser work, just that it doesn't have as much substance to it.

I enjoy watching Godzilla: Final Wars. It's a fun movie. But it's *not* worth spending hours a day thinking about. And anyone who would say it is has got some serious issues.

[charity]

I don't like Jordan because he's boring, and he makes allusions that have nothing behind them.

that's what I meant, actually. And I even reworded my post cause I thought you might say that about comics. I grew up with X-men and Batman and Superman (my brother's more than me). I'm a particular softy for X-Men myself... I think I got a lot more of that than the others. But I don't mind comics at all.

I do have to say SE that there were about 3 titles you just spouted that I've never heard of. My husband is on a 'read the classics' kick and I must say I agree with him. If you read the classics you get a new feel for all sorts of things, like movies, since they .....blah what's the word I'm looking for.... hint (not the word...) towards lots of classics in movies. Plus you just sound really smart when you can talk like that... 

Spriggan!

No Harry Potter? No Wheel of Time? No Tolkien? Now I'm curious what you read? course that's not to say that if you haven't read those books you aren't well read, (I had a friend tell me that HP7 was possibly the best book she'd ever read, and I thought, "hmm, I definitely don't agree with that") in fact I wouldn't really judge someone as 'well read' by those at all.
Fantasy is a new thing for me, really, maybe 3 or 4 years of reading. Before that I was really into Historical Fiction, before that Murder Mysteries. Now I'm broadening again and perhaps soon will have gone on to a new genre....

I agree about The Hobbit, I read it after the LOTR and found it boring. But I love LOTR.

[Spriggan]

I read books like:
Object Oriented Programming
ActionScript Animation
PHP Security
Information Architecture for Designers

I really don't have interest in Fiction anymore, I'll read Brandon's and Mustard's books but really have no interest in anything else and haven't since I was a freshman in college.  Harry Potter holds no interest to me because the movies are just live action Scooby-Do movies with out a talking dog -- and actually the ones I've seen were worse then the actual Scooby-Do movie.