Local Barnes & Noble Issues

[saberworks]

My local Barnes & Noble still doesn't have the new Mistborn book in stock.  They will order it for me if I want, but I will have to wait and pick it up at the store.  And if I have to wait even longer, I'll just order it on Amazon.com for cheaper.  So what's up with that?  I've noticed that they don't get the new fantasy books on shelves until weeks or even months after the release date.  Nobody at the store will talk to me about it, all the salespeople just say, "whatever, we can order it if you really want it."  But nobody will tell me why new fantasy and sci-fi novels don't show up in a timely manner.  Any ideas?  Is this something that affects all Barnes & Noble stores, or does each store control what books they order?  Anyway, I am now ordering it off Amazon, I can't wait to read it.

[EUOL]

Saberworks,

This is good ammunition!  Thanks a ton for posting, and for ordering the book even though it's hard to find.  Here's what's going on.

Barnes and Noble ranks their stores by genre.  It's all handled in the home office, based on historic sales that given store manages.  Individual stores don't order books (usually), the home office does.  With a book like Mistborn, they will determine how many copies a given 'type' of store will get.

For instance, with MB2, stores classified as "High SF stores" were put at something like 6 copies.  Stores that were mid ranked in SF got 2.  All stores that are classified as "Not good sf stores" got 0.  (This is different from Mistborn 1, where they decided to go with a 2 copy minimum, even at bad sf stores.)  I'm not sure why they decided to go with fewer on this book, particularly since we've ended up selling 75% MORE copies.  It might have to do with the way B&N views hardbacks.

The store has the policy, as I understand it, to have 'quick turn around' on hardbacks.  They don't want to keep many of them on the shelves because it ties up a lot of money in stock.  Paperbacks are cheaper, and they like to stock more of those.  So, Mistborn 1 got 'returned' from B&N after only being out for a couple of months.  It continued to sell very strongly at Borders and other stores, but at BN, it was gone so quickly, it didn't have time to do a lot of sales. 

BN has the philosophy, it seems, of "Sell a lot of hardbacks the first few weeks, then return them before they get stale."  That's great for some genres, but in SFF, books tend to need more time to sell.  We tend to be a group who buys in paperback, then goes and buys our favorites in hardback.  So, for instance, the Elantris hardback can continue to sell good numbers even years after it came out.  We're collectors.

Regardless, we now have this problem with MB2 of having trouble getting it into people's hands.  The fact that we nearly doubled our first week sales on the book despite this problem is very encouraging to me.  However, emails and posts like yours will help us--hopefully--get a second, larger order from BN. 

Hope you enjoy the book!

Brandon

[saberworks]

Thanks for your reply.  I wonder if the store recently got "downgraded" from a good Sci-fi/Fantasy store.  They recently moved from a building across the street from the local mall into the mall itself.  I certainly don't like it as much, it's a lot louder, they have a music store and a bigger coffee shop which makes it more of a teenage hangout than a serious book store.

Regarding hardbacks, I generally buy hardbacks from my favorite authors as soon as they come out, and paperbacks or libraries for the rest.  I have a short list of favorite authors, but after Elantris and Mistborn 1, you are definitely on it (along with L.E. Modesitt, Jr. and Michael Flynn).  I buy the hardbacks because I'm impatient, I don't want to wait for the paperbacks. 

[42]

The Orem Barnes & Noble had copies of Mistborn 2, but I had to ask them for a copy since they didn't have any out on the floor. All their copies were in the back.

They also didn't have copies of Stacer's Hallowmere book, which they said was sold out.

[stacer]

They told me that in California, too, so hopefully that means there will be more on the shelves soon! It's a paperback, so subject to different policies than Brandon's hardcovers, but I'm not sure of all the intricate details.

[dillinisgood]

This is my first post here but I have first hand knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes at barnes and noble.  Im a receiver at one of their stores so I am the first person to see any book that comes through the door.  I can say that Well of Ascension has been at our store and a ton of MM Papreback copies of Mistborn came through recently.  We didnt get many copies of Well of Ascension I will admit but some is better than none I guess.  What a lot of people don't realize is like Brandon said each store has no control over what comes to the store.  The home office orders everything for each individual store and it all differs from one store to another.  Also like Brandon said this is all dependent upon selling history (ever work at Barnes and Noble Brandon? lol).  I feel you guys pain though I can attest to the fact that their are tons of things as far as fantasy goes that we never get that really surprises me.  One example is Scott Lynch's Lies of Locke Lamora.  We have never had one copy of it in hardback.  But I digress.  I hope this helps some.  Travis

[Bookstore Guy]

Just to give a contrast between B&N and Waldens, here's what happened at my store:

I ordered whatever the flip I wanted, and in the quantity I wanted.  I sold everything I ordered.  I made my location the #1 ranked Waldens out of 700 stores.

Here is the mindset difference - Waldens believed (note the past tense) that its sellers knew what was best to have in inventory, and let them order in what they wanted.  They still got initial shipments in, but a good store manager knew what to request more of.  Many stores wouldnt request certain genres because they said they didnt sell that type at their store...garbage.

Any store can sell any genre if the people there know how to sell it.

Now, as far as selling strategies go, many of you already know my opinion - but i really dont ever grow tired of saying what I think...so there.

B&N doesnt stock very many hard backs (HBs) unless you are a person who has a history of being a #1 NYT Bestseller.  The thinking in most cases is that HBs are harder to sell due to their ever-inflating price-tags.  B&N returns most of thier hardbacks after a certain amount of time.  Then, they load up on mass-market (MM) paperbacks (PBs).  They are easier to sell, and the cost of your inventory on-hand per unit is far less.  This strategy, in my opinion, is flawed, because you dont place any faith in a stores ability to sell - and you are losing out on a huge potential profit.
Waldens on the other hand lets thier managers order in whatever, with the rule that if you order it, you better sell it.  Many Walden's focus on HBs nearly exclusively.  They get in very few PBs in comparision to other book chains.  I also feel this too is flawed, because if your sales staff isnt in top shape, you stand to lose a lot of money.

I feel that the way to go is somewhere in between the 2 ideals.  Book businesses are doing aweful.  Rather than provide service and gather great sales people to attract new and loyal customers, they fall into the price wars trap.  I am beginning to think that none of these people understand basic marketing principals.  Price wars only generate one winner - the buyer...and thats only in the short term.  All sellers lose here because they eventually sell their books at a loss to attract more customers (Harry Potter anyone?...I bought mine for 50%off...thats a 4% loss in the best situation).  That strategy only works if you have good sales people to drive up the units per trnsaction...of course, these same stores dont have good sales people generally since they are relying on crazy discounts.

Stores have to be more flexible.  Brandon isnt the first author to suffer from bad business strategy, and he wont be the last.  Stores need to realize the profit benefit from have people who can sell HB efficiently, while pairing them with PBs in mass quantity (the only way to make money on PBs).   Regardless of what all stores and people in Corporate think, people will buy HBs regrdless of price and economic circumstances.  I've seen it in work in different situations and economies, but the comnpanies wont pony up the wages to hire good people, and they insist on going back to aweful strategies.

Before I used to pimp Waldens as being awesome, but guess what?  They have fallen into crappiness.  Instead of seing how nearly all Waldens were making profits and looking at why, they have decided to close nearly all the Waldens over the next year to make more Borders...too bad Borders stores on a whole dont profit at all.

Sorry to rant, but some serious changes need to be made, other wise all current authors (and future ones) will suffer.

[EUOL]

You make some good points NBGAM (man, that looks...odd in acronym.)  At the same time, I can understand why Barnes and Noble does what it does.

Ordering fewer copies of MB2 than MB1 actually made sense in a way.  While we sold MB1 really well at Borders and Walden, we sold poorly at BN.  Why?  Because this book grew legs (meaning it sold a lot of copies months after it was out) which happened after BN had returned.  So, by their counts, MB2 wasn't going to sell a whole ton of copies.

They were wrong, but the ordering makes sense.  I don't like how they keep a low stock of hardbacks, but the business strategy is this: Order a ton of NYT bestsellers and sell them at a steep discount, use that to get people into the store, try and sell them a handful of impulse buy paperbacks while they're there.

I thing that BN should relax their hardback return policies a little bit, but it's not the fault of individual stores.  It's about how things work on a corporate level.  The BN sales mentality just isn't very good for smaller genres like SF&F.  However, the whole book industry is having troubles right now, so perhaps this is what BN thinks it needs to do in order to be profitable.

All of that aside, I REALLY wish they'd decided not to put MB2 on 'No replenish'.  That's the real problem.  We can't dig ourselves out of the 'low order' hole at BN because no matter how well the book sells, they won't get more copies in. 

[Bookstore Guy]

Yeah, I never really understood the whole "no-replenish" thing.  My store had the same problem with guys like Steven Erikson.  We got 4 copies of the MM of the 2nd book in his series, sold them in 15 min, and didnt get anymore because of "no-replenish".  Nevermind our store sold 300+ of the first book, and 50 of the 2nd book in Trade.  So we had to order them directly from the suppliers.

Corporate tends to use blanket strategies ive noticed.  They think that whats good for certain stores is good for all stores.  Waldens especially has a problem with ignoring regional trends.  Poor marketing.  Corporate tells store to push certain books at certain times, regardless of whether that book is appropriate for the area.

Once again, I blame corporate to a high degree.  The recent trend has been to ignore the requests of stores and implement poorly imagined strategies.  Much of Waldens/Borders problems derive from reacting to the market rather than trying to anticipate it.   If you are "reacting", its too late already. 

As far as B&Ns strategy goes, yes it works for them, but its not the best option.  They go crazy discounting and then bank on impulse buys...and in theory that works.  In reality, it only works if you have a skilled sales staff.  At Waldens, my policy for everyone I worked with was, "If they are going to buy a hardback on discount, then they MUST NOT leave the store without a companion paperback or a regualr price HB."  How many bookstores have that aggressivness (without shoving it down the buyers thoats) to do that?  Book chains need better hireing and training processes if they want a truely profitable business.

[polaris]

I've stopped buying at B&N. The last 8 books i've been looking for in new release, they didn't have.  Waldens/ Boarders ((They're the same company for those who didn't know)) only had 4 of the last eight.  The only book store that has always had whatever book i've been looking for, including both Mistborn books, was Joseph Beth's. They might not have many copies of their books, but at least they always have them.

[saberworks]

Well, we don't have any other "real" bookstores within probably 100 miles.  We used to have a walden's and a B Dalton in the mall, but when Barnes and Noble showed up, the B Dalton disappeard.  The Walden's is still there, but it's so small they only have a few sci-fi/fantasy titles, and they're virtually all paperbacks.  I work across the water in Seattle where there are probably a ton of bookstores, but the only ones close to my work are used book stores.  Oh well, I should have my copy shortly   Not only did I order the book from Amazon, but their "free shipping on orders of $25 or more" deal led to my wife adding another book to my order, whereas I left B&N empty-handed.

[stacer]

Where do you work, saberworks? There are several excellent independent bookstores in the Seattle area.

[saberworks]

Where do you work, saberworks? There are several excellent independent bookstores in the Seattle area.

I'm on 1st Ave. N & Harrison, a block or two from Key Arena.

Oh, and I got my copy today!

[Bookstore Guy]

The reason your B Dalton vanished when the B&N came is because B Dalton IS B&N - much like Waldens IS Borders.  B&N decided to go with big format stores (just like Borders is now) and shut now a large majority of theier smaller mall-based stores (just like Borders aims to close down 90% of thier 700 Waldens locations).

[stacer]

There isn't really a good independent on Queen Anne, yeah, but there's Elliott Bay Bookstore in Pioneer Square about the same distance from your work as the B&N downtown at Pacific Place. Also, if you make a small trip of it, there's University Books over in the U District, an excellent independent, but a little farther off from Queen Anne.

But hey, you're just a few blocks from my favorite Seattle Thai place, Racha Thai.