Author Topic: D&D 4th edition??  (Read 24319 times)

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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2007, 04:10:23 PM »
This showed up in my email regarding the RPGA Living campaigns. It's been going around several forums.

Quote
A Year of Change: The RPGA in 2008

As most of you reading this know, Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition was
announced at Gen Con Indy on this past Thursday evening. This means
great things for the game, and with that, big changes for the RPGA
and its programs. Ever since "The Announcement" , one of the hot
topics both at the convention and online has been "What does this
mean for the future?"

At our members' meeting this evening, Ian and I talked to the
assembled players, judges, and staff about the RPGA's future. Even
though many of you can't be with us, we felt it necessary to send out
the "official word" to you as soon as the meeting was concluded, so
you could have all the information in one place. Here we go!

Campaigns Concluding
Living Greyhawk has been the face of organized play for the 3rd
Edition D&D game. Tremendously successful, thousands participate
worldwide in the biggest shared-world D&D game anywhere. LG has been
around since the beginning of 3rd Edition, and it will last to the
end of the 3rd Edition product line. Starting with a two-round
special at D&D Experience 2008 (February 28 – March 2), the campaign
will begin its final story arc – a series of core adventures that
will build into the climactic two-round finale at Origins 2008. We're
pulling out all the stops in these final adventures – no major NPC is
off-limits, and you're really going to be a part of the most world-
affecting story arc we've ever done. We're getting some of the best
authors to ever write for Living Greyhawk to help with these
adventures – what the Circle has planned is nothing short of amazing.
While the campaign concludes at Origins next year, it is our
sincerest desire to provide you an epic conclusion to the campaign we
all love so much.

I know you want more specifics, now that the cat's out of the bag.
Regions will have up to 6 adventures next year – all of them will
premiere no later than June 30, 2008. Metaregions will have 4
adventures next year, with the same premiere deadline. All adventures
released in 2007 and 2008 will be playable until December 31, 2008.
We're also looking at increasing play opportunities for your
characters in 2008 so they have a better chance of reaching the goals
you've set for them. The two specials next year – the first and last
adventures in the final core story arc – will be available for all
conventions soon after they premiere at their respective shows. Many
more players will be able to enjoy all of the final adventures for
Living Greyhawk, as the specials come to their local shows.

More information on Living Greyhawk's conclusion will become
available in the next few weeks on the website.

Xen'drik Expeditions will also be concluding at Origins 2008. As the
D&D Campaigns programs use 2-year story arcs, the campaign pulls into
its last stop right on time. The Factionmasters have prepared a great
final story arc that really engages all of the factions into a final
two-round spectacular at Origins next year. Stormreach will never be
the same after it's over.

We also bid a fond farewell to Living Kingdoms of Kalamar in 2008. At
D&D Experience next year, LK will run its special finale adventures.
All other adventures will be playable through the RPGA until March
31, 2008.

So, with the existing campaigns ending, what will rise up to take
their place? Read on!

Campaigns Beginning
At D&D Experience 2008, you'll be able to get your first full-on play
of D&D 4th Edition in its final form. This will come in the form of
preview adventures for the next Living campaign – Living Forgotten
Realms! The most popular campaign setting for D&D finally gets its
turn as a regionalized Living campaign. If you like the system for
Living Greyhawk, you'll love what we have in store with Living
Forgotten Realms: more play opportunities for the average gamer,
fully supported online and offline play, and a greater shared-world
experience than we've ever done before with a Living campaign. Living
Forgotten Realms will be the first truly global Living campaign.

But we can't do it without your help! We're placing a call out for
administrators to help us on both a global and regional level.
Information on how you can help will be available in September on the
RPGA website. Global and regional administrators will get previews of
4th Edition material as they work to provide the most immersive game
experience you'll ever find in an organized play campaign.

D&D Experience 2008 is the place to be for exciting previews of the
new Living campaign; the campaign fully launches at Gen Con Indy 2008.

With Xen'drik Expeditions ending, a new D&D Campaigns program will
take its place. As it is scheduled to begin in late summer/fall 2008,
we can't yet announce what it will be, but it will improve upon the
success of Xen'drik. (Of course, we'll be looking for help with that
as well – once again, check on the website in a few weeks for more
info.)

More to Come!
As 2007 rolls on, we'll have a lot more to talk about regarding our
current programs, the upcoming programs mentioned above, and other
exciting new programs coming out in 2008 and beyond. There's still a
lot more information we want to get out to you, but we have to save
some of our goodies for a little later!

Thanks to everyone involved in the RPGA for making our organization
the success it is today. Stay with us, as it's going to get even
better.

Game On!
____________ ______
Chris Tulach
RPGA Content Manager
Wizards of the Coast

The Folly of youth is to think that intelligence is a subsitute for experience. The folly of age is to think that experience is a subsitute for intelligence.

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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2007, 04:56:56 PM »
So 42 are you apart of the RPGA? Do you participate in any of their campaigns?

This seems like it'd be the most opportune time for any aspiring DMs or players to join the RPGA on a fresh, clean start. I've looked into the RPGA once or twice before, but it always just seemed so convoluted and at times daunting and confusing.
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Spriggan

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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2007, 08:51:01 PM »
I bet the reason Wizards was trying to get the Dragonlance setting rights was for it to replace Living Eberron.
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2007, 08:52:09 PM »
So 42 are you apart of the RPGA? Do you participate in any of their campaigns?

This seems like it'd be the most opportune time for any aspiring DMs or players to join the RPGA on a fresh, clean start. I've looked into the RPGA once or twice before, but it always just seemed so convoluted and at times daunting and confusing.

Yeah, we play Living Greyhawk.  I think their campaign rulebook makes it look a lot worse then it is.  If you can find someone who already does it, then it is pretty simple.

I got a 5th lvl elf cleric and a human cleric/rogue who's a few xp from lvl 10.  I think might try to fit in as many of the Living adventures with my elf and try to get him into this campaign-ending adventure.  Then try to do Expedition to the Demonweb Pits with my other cleric (that is a hardback adventure by WotC).  It will be a lot more fun to retire my living greyhawk chars with some cool adventures, then just some lame run-0f-the-mill adventure that just happened to be the one that got them to lvl 16 (your char auto-retires once they have enough xp to make lvl 16).
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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2007, 10:32:59 PM »
Yes I am a member of the RPGA if that adds to my geek cred.
I play and DM about equally. And currently I work at organizing events.

Just learned, RPGA members that are Living Greyhawk Triad  and Xen'drik Expedition's Factionmasters get to play test 4th ed. around January. Thank goodness I know the local LG Triad member. Even if I don't get to play test, I should be able to get some information from him.

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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2007, 01:29:00 PM »
I've been holding off posting, and I probably sound like a lot of other people, but seriously, the idea of *another* D&D edition pisses me off. I really don't need to spend $100 to play their game.  I'm tired of defending the system to friends who don't like it when what I get for doing that is another un-needed edition.

1978 - AD&D PHB first published
1989 - 2nd ed PHB first published
2000 - 3rd ed PHB published (that's 11 years between editions)
2003 - 3.5 PHB published -- there were a few things that were cleared up, so even despite the blatant "we want you to spend money on our miniatures to play our already expensive game" I went along with it.
2008 4th edtion PHB planed for publication.

Not only has it been *only* five years since the last edition, it's only been 8 years since the one before that! It'd be different if I could still get them for under $15 like I could when I was a teen, but this is absurd. This edition is not needed. I can't even get myself to read up on the planned changes because I get so angry whenever I think of this.

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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2007, 04:03:24 PM »
I think WotC doesn't really care about loosing long-time players. I think they see they have more to gain by attracting new players. A lot of younger players that I know are really excited about 4th ed. whereas a lot of older players I know are fuming mad.
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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2007, 05:19:31 PM »
I'm indifferent.

I don't see why SE is so upset, no one is forcing anyone to buy 4e and just like second edition or 1st just play the one you like--it's not like 4e coming out prevents you from playing 3.x since just about every conceivable book has come out for that system.  I really think, outside of organized play, 4e is a non-issue for 3.x fans.  And as for the 8 years isn't long enough argument I buy new software versions (both OS and other development stuff) every 4-5 years so how is this different?

Heck the reason 4e interests me is the lack of books, it would be nice to play a system were there's not 100 books to keep track of.
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

Chuck Norris is the reason Waldo is hiding.


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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2007, 06:30:02 PM »
I'm not interested in counter arguments, nor am I so naive to think that Wizards cares about my single opinion. bringing in a new player to my group with the rulebooks less availalbe *does* affect me. It's not that I'm a big fan of 3.x, I just don't want *another* system, especially since there *will* be at least three books. D&D is one of the more expensive systems, even when you only consider the core books.

It's frustrating. Plus, I *don't* buy every new version of software, nor is it as big an obstacle. You don't have to do anything to a PSD file to use is it in later versions of Photoshop, you have to convert a character sheet, a dungeon, a monster, a magic item, whatever. That's a significant variation from the new software version comparison.

My final judgement: lame.

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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2007, 12:57:01 AM »
I also find myself feeling apathetic toward the change. I'd already decided not to buy any new 3.5 books, as I've spent too much already, and I don't like the way it's getting increasingly overpowered. I have no desire to spend additional money to replace my current library with 4th ed adjustments.
I guess if I were to get angry about something, it would be that 3.5 products were still being cranked out while 4th ed was being put into motion. That seems a slap in the face to gamers who thought they were making a long-term investment in a system that would continue to be "current" for years to come. Sort of like still making out with your significant other when you know you're going to dump them soon.
And, yes, I understand that WotC is a company, and that their focus is to make a profit, and to that they feel reinventing their product is the best way to do that. But I really feel there's something to be said for not alienating your core users.
So I guess I lied. I am kind of upset about it.
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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2007, 01:49:38 AM »
See I see it a little different Harbinger, I don't see it as a slap in the face for those that like 3.x to have books still coming out, I see it as Wizards still supporting those that like the line because--as I've stated several times--you don't have to buy 4.0 if you like 3.x.  Heck the books will be around on the internet and Ebay for several years so it won't even be hard for new players to get any of them if they want.

I'm just having a real hard time grasping the argument people are getting screwed by this, or that RPGs should only have new editions every 10 years or that 4.0 some how invalidates all the books you have now.  Heck I've got RPG books for systems that have been out of print for years and that doesn't make me think "Well I can't play this game anymore because it's not currently being published".

I'm thinking most of the people that are upset about this are just being reactionary and that by the time 4.0 actually comes out those same people won't care one bit or will be in line to buy it themselves.
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2007, 02:01:07 AM »
I think, in a quick post, that what SE and others are feeling is that from 3 to 3.5 there were minor changes, but still everything was the same price.

Now, however, we're getting the same price again, but still don't have much information on what we're getting besides another "overhaul" of a system that's been around for a while.

Are you also noting Sprig, that D&D is more of an investment of a table-top game than most others? I've got a few systems laying around that are only one book. However, D&D has (always?) been filled with a number of books that expand the system/world for you.

I'm sure everyone here can say they have at least $200 worth of D&D material, if not more.
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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2007, 02:05:41 AM »
I understand that Gemm, but I don't see how 4.0 makes those $200 3.x books worthless or this feeling of betrayal that I'm sensing.

I personally don't have $200 in D&D books, I do have that in D20 books (and almost twice that in Palladium).
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

Chuck Norris is the reason Waldo is hiding.


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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2007, 02:52:16 AM »
There is a lot of 3e rules that could be tightened up, but my big question is how much 4e will actually do that.  How much are they tightening it up, and how much are they just cutting stuff out to avoid dealing with it.  I mean if you cut out full attacks and grappling and 1 round/lvl buff spells and AoOs, yeah that will probably speed up game play.  But then you add in a 25 lvl spell system (vs. 9 lvl), more abilities to keep track of, and encouraging a larger number of enemies per encounter, you kind of lose that extra speed.  And it didn't even tighten up any rules, just got rid of some rules that took awhile and filled up the extra time with new rules.

So maybe they will tighten up 4e a lot between now and release, and it will be really cool.  But if it blows prismatic chucks everywhere, or is not really any better, just a bit different, then I don't see myself getting into it much beyond maybe a copy of the PHB.  Certainly not a monthly fee for D&D Insider.  But if its awesome, then it might be worth it.  I don't really want to figure out how much I spent on 3rd edition stuff, but its safe to say over $2000.  That isn't my big concern with 4e, its if the game is actually good or not.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2007, 02:55:49 AM by Eagle Prince »
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Re: D&D 4th edition??
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2007, 01:41:11 PM »
see, your problem sprig, is that you think that terms like 'being screwed' describe how we feel.

I'm just mad that they don't want to take care of me anymore. Instead, they want me to spend another $100 for a new edition. Before you bring up the tired "you don't have to buy 4.0" again, no, i don't, but YES they DO want me to buy it. No reward for being a faithful devotee of the system.

And no, they're not obligated, and they want to make money. I just don't want to give it to them anymore. It's goign to be *very* hard to get excited about a system, no matter how cool they make stuff, if 5.0 is going to come out in 2013.  And that's the precedent they're setting.

I liked it when TSR was the monster in the dungeon, but that monster was still something you could slay. TSR was like AD&D dragons. Few, if any, things were tougher, but a big bad dragon still only had 16 HD. Now that Wizards of the Coast owns D&D, and Hasbro owns Wizards, they're becoming this over-powered, hyper-massive gargantuan beast that you have to have epic levels to slay. Well, sorry, I don't have the epic levels. I'm married, have 4 kids, and Wizards won't send me review products anymore. I guess this means we're breaking up. (to mix metaphors)