Author Topic: Best book you've ever read...  (Read 40921 times)

Reaves

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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #105 on: December 10, 2008, 11:02:23 PM »
It's not that Martin is a bad writer. In my opinion he is very good. He is also very willing to kill off "main" characters, which I respect. He has pretty good ideas and good execution.

Its just the repeated, explicit sex that really turns me off. And I don't think he kills off women too much, or because of any strange mental damage in his own life. Arya is still around, as is Sansa and Daenyris. Catelyn is kinda sorta still around.

The one thing I am concerned for him about is the brother-sister relationships.... First of all, the Targaryens married brother and sister, and Daenyris was going to do that with her brother before he was killed. We have Jaime and his sister. Asha greyjoy pretends to be someone else and gets hit on/felt up by her brother, and it's hinted that Loras and Margaery Tyrell have something going on.
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readerMom

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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #106 on: December 10, 2008, 11:11:31 PM »
I've just gotten into Jim Butcher, but it seems there are two types of series; the Jordan ones, a single story, told over many volumes, or the TV series type, with a main character and many books of their exploits.  I have read quite a few of the latter and they are a known element.  Every time you read one you sort of know what to expect.  The problem I have is with the first.  It is very difficult to tell a story that long without getting lost every once in a while.
And I just read Three Men in a Boat and it is one of the funniest books I've read in a long while.  I hurt my bad back laughing so hard.

Silk

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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #107 on: December 10, 2008, 11:44:58 PM »
I haven't heard of Jim Butcher, I don't think...

I'm not a huge fan of the explicit sex and whatnot either, though I think that's mostly a personal taste thing... Because I think it's important that we actually do see that happening.

Martin's tendency to kill off main characters is actually one of the problems I have with the series. Or at least, killing them off in droves like Martin tends to. Readers spend a long time with some of those characters, investing in them and empathizing with them, and when a whole load of them croak it feels that the time we've spent with them has been made somehow irrelevant.

Reaves

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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #108 on: December 11, 2008, 12:30:01 AM »
I'm not a huge fan of the explicit sex and whatnot either, though I think that's mostly a personal taste thing... Because I think it's important that we actually do see that happening.

Martin's tendency to kill off main characters is actually one of the problems I have with the series. Or at least, killing them off in droves like Martin tends to. Readers spend a long time with some of those characters, investing in them and empathizing with them, and when a whole load of them croak it feels that the time we've spent with them has been made somehow irrelevant.

Some of it, I can understand why you'd think its necessary. But some of it can't be described as anything but gratuitous. Theon makes out with basically a nameless, faceless captain's daughter. We will never see her again. She did absolutely nothing for the plot...I guess you could call it reinforcing Theon's character, at a stretch.

And then Tyrion...after the seventh or so time with Shae, I thought it was getting a little ridiculous.

As for the deaths...it reinforces the fact that it is a Dark fantasy. People die in real life. More people die in a Song of Ice and Fire. If only non-viewpoint characters die, it would be unrealistic.

On a related note, did you know that every single prologue point-of-view character has died so far?  :P
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mtbikemom

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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #109 on: December 11, 2008, 12:39:31 AM »
I'm not a huge fan of the explicit sex and whatnot either, though I think that's mostly a personal taste thing... Because I think it's important that we actually do see that happening.

   Most sex scenes are so ridiculously glamorized, especially those written by men, or involve something disgusting in order to make them interesting to the modern reader, that I just end up rolling my eyes.  (Oh great, another virgin having a certain impossible experience the first time...)  Some of these need to be written as comedy, some tragedy, almost never heroic perfection.  Better yet, leave us outside the bedroom (and bathroom) doors to use our own imaginations which are far more satisfying than the usual clumsy attempts on the page, especially by writers of fantasy.  

No one seems to realize that married sex is the best sex there is... but who wants to read about that?  Not even me.


Silk

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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #110 on: December 11, 2008, 12:57:19 AM »
The sheer volume of explicit sex makes me agree that you could probably call some of it a little gratuitous, though I don't recall any specific scenes that jumped out at me as "this doesn't need to be here" when reading it. (Of course, it's probably been a couple years since I read any of the books...) And I think sometimes it's necessary to have us right in the room with the characters, and sometimes it's possible to just close the bedroom door, as MT said, and still get the same effect. (Though I dunno, those transitions can be cheesy and poorly done too, and sometimes to me they just feel like a copout...)

I know that it's realistic when people die but fiction isn't real life, and sometimes to maintain "reality" in fiction you can't hold it up to realistic standards. That's counter intuitive, so...   I think once you're not engaged with something anymore, the "reality" of it is lost - you can't suspend your disbelief if you're not engaged with the story to do that. And so many people die in Martin's books that it annoys me to the point of pulling me out of the stry.

Plus, it kind of loses its effect. The build-up to the Red Wedding, for example, was creepy and ominous and great. The Red Wedding itself? The world went to hell in a handbasket, and my reaction turning the page was "meh".
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 01:04:49 AM by SilknSnow »

Loud_G

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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #111 on: December 11, 2008, 03:56:11 PM »
I only read book one of G.R.R. Martin's series because I found he was too sex crazy. Rape, sex, and breast feeding dragons..... Could have done without any of that. None of it added to the characters something that couldn't have been added another way....
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mtbikemom

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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #112 on: December 11, 2008, 10:54:29 PM »
Consensus seems to be: Too bad a talented, imaginative fantasy writer like Martin is also quite a bit "off."  His sort of book what I try to avoid when asking for recommendations for reliable books, any genre, that won't damage my soul in the enjoyment, and why I have begun to read your EUOL's stuff lately.  Just getting to the end of Mistborn 1.  Enjoyable and reliable!

Please let me know if any of you have read Carol Berg yet!   I found one review of Song of the Beast here, but that is not her best.

Bastille

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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #113 on: December 30, 2008, 07:55:37 PM »
I have to give you best BOOKS so probably... You'll probably notice there all fantasy. I find non-fiction books B-O-A-R-I-N-G.
-Alcatraz #1+#2
-Mistborn
-Twilight Saga
-Inkheart+ Inkspell
-Revenge of the Shadow King

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Nature's first green is gold
Her hardest hue to hold. Her early leaf's a flower;
But only so an hour. Then leaf subsides to leaf.
So Eden sank to grief, So dawn goes down to day.
Nothing gold can stay.

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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #114 on: December 30, 2008, 10:00:15 PM »
Which non-fiction books have you been reading?  Some of them are indeed, quite boring, but others can be intensely fascinating, enlightening, or amusing.
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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #115 on: January 02, 2009, 03:23:46 AM »
Has anyone ever heard of Cinda Williams Chima? She's a fairly new author, but I've read three of her  books (one trilogy) and found them to be pretty satisfying for the most part (the ending of the third disagreed with me, but the rest was great). They're The Warrior Heir, The Wizard Heir, and The Dragon Heir or something like that. And cool covers too  ;D.

P.S. The books aren't very well edited, though. Missing punctuation, wrong punctuation…she even got her main character's name mixed up a few times in the last one lol.
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mtbikemom

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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #116 on: January 15, 2009, 05:40:42 AM »
Which non-fiction books have you been reading?  Some of them are indeed, quite boring, but others can be intensely fascinating, enlightening, or amusing.

Try:
Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong
by James W. Loewen  (This was one of my favorite books of about ten years ago.  Unbiased, he shoots down both right and left appropriately.)

Darwin's Black Box by Behe  (very biased and technical, but correct... best part is about 3/4 of the way through)

1776 by David McCullough  (good July 4th reading)

A Chance to Die by Elizabeth Elliot (about Amy Carmichael... a missionary who wrote lots of good Victorian poetry)




Comfortable Madness

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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #117 on: January 15, 2009, 03:17:40 PM »
Consensus seems to be: Too bad a talented, imaginative fantasy writer like Martin is also quite a bit "off."  His sort of book what I try to avoid when asking for recommendations for reliable books, any genre, that won't damage my soul in the enjoyment, and why I have begun to read your EUOL's stuff lately.  Just getting to the end of Mistborn 1.  Enjoyable and reliable!

Please let me know if any of you have read Carol Berg yet!   I found one review of Song of the Beast here, but that is not her best.

Wow! I haven't gotten around to this thread in awhile and it seems a ton of GRRM bashing has gone on while my back was turned. Does he kill off a lot of characters? Yes, yes he does, to say that that killing is biased towards woman is absolutely outrageous. Had you bothered to read any further you would have noticed that he develops quite a few strong female characters such as Danearys, Brienne, and Arya. Furthermore, to say an author is a bit "off" or a "bad writer" simply because the world which he created is too dark for you is absurd.

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Loud_G

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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #118 on: January 15, 2009, 03:28:49 PM »
I don't believe the killing was the "consensus" that was reached. I'm pretty sure it was the pointless, over abundant, over-described sex that REALLY was the point of most of the bashing.
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Comfortable Madness

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Re: Best book you've ever read...
« Reply #119 on: January 15, 2009, 05:43:04 PM »
I don't believe the killing was the "consensus" that was reached. I'm pretty sure it was the pointless, over abundant, over-described sex that REALLY was the point of most of the bashing.

I can see that, sort of. The scenes with Tyrion and Shae were a little redundant. However, the scenes were too show that even though Tyrion hungered for her he regretted every second of it. It served to give more insight on why and who Tyrion really is/was. I believe that each and every sex scene served a purpose. The purpose was to give the reader more intimate knowledge on the character in said sex scene. So, without the descriptions, the sex scenes would be as simple as "Jaime and Cersei then had sex......". Now had he done that you could call the sex scenes pointless as they would not have given insight to anything. So, are the sex scenes pointless? No ...not at all.
“I will never serve you, Father of Lies. In a thousand lives, I never have. I know that. I’m sure of it. Come. It is time to die.” Rand al'Thor

"Mourn if you must. But mourn on the march to Tarmon Gai'don." Logain Ablar