Violence

[EUOL]

I'm curious about how you all regard the use of violence in your own works.  What exactly is 'glorifying violence?'  I like a good action scene, myself, but sometimes I worry about the things I put into my books.  How much is too much?  When is it 'justified?'

[Mistress of Darkness]

One of the things that I like is what you might call "tact." For example, you can say that a person's head was cleaved in two, without going in to the gory details.  

[Sharm]

Another thing to remember is that your audience can pick up on hints.  (I'm really bad at remembering that.)  If things are going to get really bad due to the evil villian, you can hint at the bad stuff and change the scene before you have to write all the gory details.

Usually I can't handle anything that might be classified as torture.  Or as MOD said, to much detail about someone being cut in half.  Yuck.

[EUOL]

Yes, but isn't having your hero hack someone's head in two--no matter how you describe it--glorifying violence?  Isn't any action scene partially a celebration of how cool it is to beat up on other people?

[JP Dogberry]

Well, that's because it *is* cool to beat up on people, at least in fiction. But sometimes, depending on your setting, violence is unavoidable. You can't just stand still and take it when someone attempts to take you out with an axe.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I've refrained from responding because I don't think I have a solid theory. I kind of think i'm in the "I'l know it when I see it" camp on glorifying violence.

however, no, I don't think EVERY depiction of violence is a glorification of it. For example, some of it is meant to horrify or shock you about how terrible violence is.

I have a gut feeling that some action/violence is ok. But there's a limit. I can't define that limit, though, so don't ask me to.

[EUOL]

I worry, however, that we as writers with religious convictions have to ask these questions.  

Is violence for entertainment purposes glorification?  And, if you're of the 'I'll know it when I see it' camp, what of the 'Stab one orc through the eye then shoot another orc with the same arrow' example.  Very cool scene.  Glorification of violence?

[JP Dogberry]

Yes, but we must consider where the violence is directed. In this case, an orc. We know orcs are evil, we've seen the actions they take, and what will happen if left to their devices. In this case, to fight them is heroic, a way of defending one's own people. The arrow is just a method of fighting them. Had the enemy been an innocent old lady or something, it would be a completely different story.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

stabbign orc in the eye and then shooting another orc with the same arrow = good.
Stabbing Eowyn in the eye and then shooting Bilbo with the same arrow = bad.

to seriously respond:
I don't think it's so much a glorification of the violence as it is a glorification of the hero. As JP pointed out. they're obviously evil, and even in this particular scenario they attacked our heroes. What makes such a shot so cool is not the gore or damage, but that Legolas can pull it off. It elevates that person in our mind. If an orc had performed the same act against even two nameless elves or Gondorians, I think the perception would have been brutality. With Legolas, it's an act of amazing skill, creativity, and ability.

[Spriggan]

Stabbing Eowyn in the eye and then shooting Bilbo with the same arrow = bad.

Ha, that's great!  I'd pay to see that!  Now all we have to do is get Peter Jackson to put it in the inevetable sequal to LOTR that some studio will hack out in the next few years.

[Mistress of Darkness]

I agree it has a lot to do with motive and morals.

For example, take DW's magic system in his "Runelords" series. I don't accept his protagonists as good, given the nature of the magic they use. In all fairness, I haven't read anymore than the first book. Neverless, the "morals", or maybe mores is the better word, of the book turned me off and I didn't want to read anymore.

In my mind you should never have to become evil, or use evil means, to fight evil. Good is a power all on it's own. And a bigger power, I might add.

In some circumstances, maybe cleaving someone's head in two is "evil means." Unfortunately, I don't have an answer for that (which doesn't help you very much, I realize). But if you need reference book, I suggest the war chapters in the Book of Mormon. I'm often surprised at the tactics that Moroni and his son Moronihah used to defend their country and their freedom.

I'm glad that you are asking these questions EUOL. I think it's very easy to get sidetracked. Look at the one woman who writes/wrote LDS romance, and started her own publishing company so that she could publish her book with pre-marital sex. Thanks for bringing this up.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

heh, the BoM DOES talk about Ammon cutting the arms off his opponents.

[Sharm]

I love that chapter!