Comedic "english" haikus

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

my thing, actually, is just that in America we treat Haiku like it's some big joke. like it's not serious poetry and that it can't be beautiful or meaningful like "real" poetry. That's why comedic poetry puts me off. Go read haiku by Kobayashi Issa. He has some witty and funny ones. But he also wrote some deep ones, touching ones, and truly inspired ones. Once you understand the POTENTIAL of haiku, then you can use it.

Until I see that people have an appreciation for haiku, their compressing silly thoughts into 17 syllables to make it more funny seems more like a weak attempt to appear more verbally adroit than usual.

And sprig, if someone has observed and studied the form, they hardly need to speak the whole language to comment on it.

[Spriggan]

they do if they're acting all stuck up about it on a forum I visit.  Just becasue you watch anime dosen't mean you're Japanese.  It's my personaly crusade to tell anime fanboys that.

[Maxwell]

Two star-crossed lovers
Both meet with a tragic end
That's entertainment

[angel]

Tripping on acid
These brigt lights are coming towards me
Oh heck it's a bus

[House of Mustard]

I have to side with JP and Ehlers here, for two reasons:

1) None of the "funny" haikus here have been funny.

2) I think that Sprig and EUOL are over-generalizing:

Sprig said:

the way TFO did the haiku is how it's taught here in the states

EUOL said:

but in English, the word 'haiku' has simply come to mean a 5,7,5 poem.

Both in high school and in college I was taught that there was a lot more to a haiku than syllable count.  Granted, my teachers were never as strict as JP's definition, but no reputable English teacher ought to let a poem slide by on syllable-count only.

[EUOL]

I'm speaking more of the general understanding and definition used by the populace.

Again, I'll point out that as a descriptivist linguist, I believe that generally the definition actually USED by a population is the one that has the most relevant meaning.  

Therefore, since I would say that since the majority of the US population would (assuming they knew what you were talking about) say that a Haiku is simply a poem with three lines following the 5-7-5 pattern, that the definition they use is ONE VALID way of defining the word.  

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I'm a descriptive linguist myself... to a point...

When the "new definition" of a term is simply a misuse and misunderstanding of a proper use that is still commonly used, I generally favor calling it an improper usage

[Brenna]

It's not necessarily a "new definition," though, just an alternate, more simple one (often used to teach the basic idea of a haiku in beginning writing classes).

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

then when it is used in English classes, it is admitted to be an incomplete definition, which is then developed as the students understand that part of it.
When used out of that context, it's still wrong.

By your choice of words is correct, Brenna, then it's not a definition. They have changed the whole meaning, therefore it's either a "new definition" or a "wrong usage" Therefore, "haiku" in the subject of this thread is incorrect

[EUOL]

No, again, there are simply multiple definitions of the word SE.

This is the English one (from dictionary.com):

A Japanese lyric verse form having three unrhymed lines of five, seven, and five syllables, traditionally invoking an aspect of nature or the seasons.

What TFO wrote WAS a Haiku, as per the English definition.  The definition says the poem style is Japanese, but it doesn't say the poem has to BE in Japanese.  It says that there is traditionally a nature element, but the phrasing implies that there can be other non-nature Haikus as well.  The only firm thing in the definition is the 5,7,5 pattern.

This is not an incorrect definition.  We refer to Korea by the name of 'Korea.'  Is this right by their definition?  No--the country hasn't actually been 'Korea' for several centuries.  The nation of Korea fell a long time ago.   The nation that exists there now is actually called 'Hanguk.'  Does that mean that it's 'incorrect' for us to call it Korea?  No, because that's the English definition of that peninsula.

TFO's poem might not be a traditional Haiku, but it's still a Haiku.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

And it is my contention that this definition is erroneous, or at the very least incomplete.

And more to the point, my perception and opinion of people who write poems of this sort are trying to look like they're playing on a literary theme, perhaps to look more witty and enhance the perceived quality of their words, when they're not doing anything of the sort.

[EUOL]

And it is my contention that this definition is erroneous, or at the very least incomplete.

Take it up with Dictionary.com--and, I would suspect, pretty much EVERY dictionary in the English language.

And more to the point, my perception and opinion of people who write poems of this sort are trying to look like they're playing on a literary theme, perhaps to look more witty and enhance the perceived quality of their words, when they're not doing anything of the sort.

A more valid point here, I suppose.  However, the big problem here is one of translation.  In Japanese, you can use a single kanji to express a LOT more meaning than you can with an English syllable.  It has to do with the nature of logographic writing systems.  

The side effect of this is that the 'Haiku' in the English term is much more difficult to make meaningful.  It has been, I think, associated with the 'limerick' in our system, and is easily exploited for humor.

However (no offense intended) I think there's a danger of literary elitism in your argument.  It is an interesting and clever exercise to try and boil down a thought into the 5,7,5 format.  You may say that they're not doing 'anything of the sort,' but it DOES require some extra thought and creativity to make your ideas fit the format.  

Perhaps this kind of sentiment is what is making poetry increasingly inaccessible to the populace.  When they try to do something creative in poetic form (though they might, admittedly, not be taking the form seriously enough) they get snapped at by the 'real' poets, and get told to go mind their own business.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

well of COURSE there's elitism in the argument. But it's only the elitism of someone who has actually taken the time to read and THINK about haiku.

I don't read Japanese or even any thing closely related to it, however, I think you CAN pack a lot into a haiku, even in English. In fact, it's not that difficult. translations of haiku, while they may be incomplete and alter the sense of it, show that.

On top of that, haiku aren't all that difficult to understand. That's what's so frustrating about it. It takes about a 10 minute course in haiku to be able to get a lot more out of it.

So maybe I'm elitist (ok, I'm DEFINITELY elitist), but it doesn't take much to get to a more educated position with haiku. You just have to care.

But one thing is different, I'm not trying to shut them out or shut them down. I just want them to care that there's something beautiful here, and by thinking it's simply 17 syllables. (I admit, it's more difficult to condense a thought into 17 syllables than to avoid syllabic count restraints, but please, it only takes a few moments to condense most sentences into 17 syllables.

Note that I'm not against comdedic haiku. Just comedic ones from people who apparently arent' aware of how haiku CAN be used.

[GorgonlaVacaTremendo]

My comrades dead silent
Their silence is permanent
I demand revenge

I see the sunrise
I cry for pity, mercy
I die by my hand

I don't like haiku
They are not my cup of tea
I prefer earl grey

[Maxwell]

I know a haiku can be deep and meaning ful, but this thread is not called deep and meaningful haikus, it's called comedic haikus, you are perfectly welcome to start an alternate thread I cant stop you from doing that, I dont think any body can, but the point of this thread is to make funny little haiku, so just quit arguing, you dont have to contribute, but you're bringing us down man...