Author Topic: Fear and Doubt  (Read 8712 times)

MsFish

  • Level 44
  • *
  • Posts: 2947
  • Fell Points: 7
  • Geek Girl, Undercover
    • View Profile
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2004, 02:31:23 AM »
Honestly?  I'm a jerk right now and I shouldn't be around anybody.  That's the reality of it.  I'm not caring enough about anyone to be nice.  

Secondly, I can't just think my way out of this one.  I need help--real help--but I've exhausted every avenue of finding it and nothing has worked.  This isn't a temporary thing for me.  I've been dealing with it since I can remember, even when I was a kid, and it doesn't get better.  It only gets worse.  

Sorry for venting this at all of you.  I've run out of people willing to listen.  
Hold fast to dreams, for when dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly.  Hold fast to dreams, for when dreams go, life is a barren field frozen with snow.  -Langston Hughes

42

  • RPG Editors
  • Level 56
  • *
  • Posts: 4350
  • Fell Points: 8
  • Unofficial World Saver
    • View Profile
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2004, 04:12:18 AM »
Quote
Hmph.  Why would you want to read anything I wrote?  


I guess I feel like responding to this one.

I think that people would want to read what you write because of why people read. There are a lot of theories as to why people read, but I like the theory that says that people read so that they can connect with someone else. To quote the film Shadowlands "We read to know that we are not alone."

So people who read what you write are looking for a way to connect with you, the author, and with the characters, conflicts, ideas and world that you have presented.

Now the problem in our current world is that Academia, literary critics, editors, and the general commercialization of writing have taught us that some things are just not worth reading. So in a way they are saying that there are some people just not worth connecting with. Despite the other merits of these professions for the writing field, I find this to be a great disservice to significant portion of society.

So as I see it, when an English instructor hands you back a paper filled with corrections and comments, it can be interpreted that your work to establish yourself is not worthwhile. That your attempts to connect with someone else are not valuable and that perhaps you shouldn't try to connect with anyone unless you can do so perfectly. And in a way, it tells you that perhaps you shouldn't waste everyone elses time by just being.

Now, Admitably, most editors and english instructors see that what they are doing is aiding you to create better writing. Unfortunately, most of them are working from someone elses opinion of what is good writing. However, after have read a lot, I find that there is really multiple versions of what is considered to be good writing. There is no such thing as "perfect" writing.

So then we have to ask, what is bad writing? Well, bad writing is what you say is bad writing. To me, James Joyce's writing is bad. I don't connect with him and his concerns, so therefor I think he is a bad writer. Now my saying that is not going to stop new copies of Portrait of an Artist... from come out every year or from countless academics teaching it every year. James Joyce has made his voice be heard by finding his own little audience.

The point is that bad writing can not really be proven absolutely. It is largely a matter of opinion where even basic spelling and grammer get questioned. The voices telling you that your writing is bad are simply not right all of the time. If you listen to them all of the time then they are actually hurting you and your writing rather than making anything better. So don't let them.

It comes down to having enough confidence to make your voice be heard. There have been many good voices that have been stifled by the nagging of a few who have made their voices louder.

So just repeat to yourself--I'm here, there is a reason that I'm here, and I going to make others know that I am here (by writing). There is really no reason for you to be unheard and alone.
The Folly of youth is to think that intelligence is a subsitute for experience. The folly of age is to think that experience is a subsitute for intelligence.

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

  • Administrator
  • Level 96
  • *
  • Posts: 19211
  • Fell Points: 17
  • monkeys? yes.
    • View Profile
    • herb's world
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2004, 09:37:29 AM »
Quote
Secondly, I can't just think my way out of this one.  I need help--real help--but I've exhausted every avenue of finding it and nothing has worked.  This isn't a temporary thing for me.  I've been dealing with it since I can remember, even when I was a kid, and it doesn't get better.  It only gets worse.

In the professional arena, there are some very good counselors available for BYU students in the Wilk. I recommend checking it out if you haven't already. Seriously.

In the amateur area, the writing will help you. it'll help US understand what you're going through, so we can help more. ANd it will help YOU get it out. I think you'll find that forcing yourself to write will make you feel better.

Skar

  • Moderator
  • Level 54
  • *****
  • Posts: 3979
  • Fell Points: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2004, 11:25:38 AM »
 
Quote
Yeah, that's my life, easy.  You pegged it.  

You don't even know me.  Don't tell me I have it easy.


Who said anything about your life?  I certainly didn't.  I was speaking strictly about your ability to write.  

Quote
Quote:
Of course we all know you really want to write.  ... horrible in retribution.


"Hmph.  Why would you want to read anything I wrote?


1: Why do you care?  I've made the offer.
2: As others have said before me, because I get to participate in a creative process. Always cool.
3: That participation improves my own writing.  I get to see neat things I'd also like to see in my own writing and horrible dumb things that I may have been tempted to do in my writing but won't now because I've seen how dumb they are.
4: I suspect you will be happier if you write and I'm all about helping people be happier.

Satisfied?  The clock is ticking.  You only have 7 days now to turn in your work.  ;D
"Skar is the kind of bird who, when you try to kill him with a stone, uses it, and the other bird, to take vengeance on you in a swirling melee of death."

-Fellfrosch

Mistress of Darkness

  • Level 37
  • *
  • Posts: 2322
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Mama
    • View Profile
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2004, 03:18:17 PM »
Quote
And the sad thing is, I don't think anyone can help.  Sure, people want to help.  People try to help.  But there's nothing they can do, and it frustrates them as much as it does me.

Ms Fish, I hope you don't give up on writing. I believe in you, even if you don't. How can I believe in someone I've never met? Because you are a daughter of God and that means you have a limitless potential. God, being omniscent, knows exactly how you feel, what you're going through,  and what you need to do to improve your situation. If you feel that there is nothing anyone else can to do help, then it's time to turn to him. In God all things are possible (even writing, even finding daylight in your life again). Obviously the solution will not come overnight, but it will come.

My son is 4 months old, he is very cute (he's laughing at me right now, which fills this mother's heart with warmth), and I love him very much. In the 4 short months since he's joined my family I think I have screamed aloud in frustration 5 or 6 times. (No, no, this was after labor.) I'm pretty sure I've never done that before. The reasons for the frustration are tied to my own struggles to overcome perfectionism. Something about those moments of unbridled frustration reminded me (in a later, saner moments) of the scripture about needing opposition in all things (2 Ne 2:11--that's such a great chapter). I thought about how everyone always talks about how much they love their children and how wonderful they are, and I realized that other mothers must have similar experiences to mine. Because they felt the terrible frustration, it enabled them to feel the joy and love more acutely. So I am learning to accept my frustration when he is cranky and even to be thankful for it because it means that I notice his smiles and laughs and enjoy them, which is something I wouldn't really be able to do if he was always so pleasant.

I think writing is like that too. I've read some books on writing and it would appear that you and I are not the only ones who get so frustrated with the art, and her own abilities (or lack thereof). But then I remember how wonderful it feels to really start writing, to be "in the groove" as I call it. And I know I wouldn't be able to enjoy it if I didn't have those (seemingly endless) periods of block.

It takes hope. You have to remind yourself, that yes, today sucks, but you will not always feel this dismal. You remember feeling better at another time, and you will feel better again.

Finally, don't feel guilty if you feel it is best to let your writing lie fallow for a little while. Like soil, you may find yourself renewed by the guiltfree respite. We'd love for you to start coming to the Abridged Speculists meetings. As Skar said, reading other people's writing teaches and encourages.
" If i ever need a pen-name I'd choose EUOL, just to confuse everyone. " --Entropy

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

  • Administrator
  • Level 96
  • *
  • Posts: 19211
  • Fell Points: 17
  • monkeys? yes.
    • View Profile
    • herb's world
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2004, 03:28:31 PM »
Oh yeah. AS, typically meeting on Tuesdays at 7pm utah time online. IM me and I'll give you the IRC infor you need. We've been slacking for a bit, but we need to get back into the groove.

Mistress of Darkness

  • Level 37
  • *
  • Posts: 2322
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Mama
    • View Profile
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2004, 03:41:31 PM »
AFTER November.

And when did we move to Tuesday?
" If i ever need a pen-name I'd choose EUOL, just to confuse everyone. " --Entropy

MsFish

  • Level 44
  • *
  • Posts: 2947
  • Fell Points: 7
  • Geek Girl, Undercover
    • View Profile
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2004, 03:49:36 PM »
Thank you, all of you.  

The real me is going to really appreciate this when she comes back from wherever she's gone.  

If she ever comes back.


Oh, and what's AS?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2004, 03:50:17 PM by MsFish »
Hold fast to dreams, for when dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly.  Hold fast to dreams, for when dreams go, life is a barren field frozen with snow.  -Langston Hughes

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

  • Administrator
  • Level 96
  • *
  • Posts: 19211
  • Fell Points: 17
  • monkeys? yes.
    • View Profile
    • herb's world
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2004, 03:53:53 PM »
Uhm.. a little bit ago, Izzy. It's been so long since we met though, we probably just need to decide what day is best for people again.

Ms. Fish, AS = Abridged Speculists, the name we chose, after MUCH debate, for our writing group. Even if you're not writing right now, maybe you wnat to join us and hash all over our work so we can make it better.

Incidentally, you sound like you DO want that "real you" to come back. I think you will come back. We're just trying to hasten the day :)

MsFish

  • Level 44
  • *
  • Posts: 2947
  • Fell Points: 7
  • Geek Girl, Undercover
    • View Profile
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2004, 03:58:39 PM »
Of course I *want* to get better, but I don't think any of this is about what I want.  If it were, I wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.  Who *wants* to be depressed?

Ok, that's probably a lie.  There's probably a part of me--maybe even most of me--that wants to believe that I deserve to feel like this.  

*screams

I really can't believe I'm saying all this to total strangers.  Goes to show how desperate I am.  
Hold fast to dreams, for when dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly.  Hold fast to dreams, for when dreams go, life is a barren field frozen with snow.  -Langston Hughes

Mistress of Darkness

  • Level 37
  • *
  • Posts: 2322
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Mama
    • View Profile
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2004, 04:03:04 PM »
I've been there!!

I find it helps to envision sticking that part of me in the closet and locking the door so that the other me, the me that I want to be, can have some space to breathe.
" If i ever need a pen-name I'd choose EUOL, just to confuse everyone. " --Entropy

MsFish

  • Level 44
  • *
  • Posts: 2947
  • Fell Points: 7
  • Geek Girl, Undercover
    • View Profile
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2004, 04:09:17 PM »
Yeah, but I think I've got the reverse situation right now.  The real me has locked herself in the closet because she's terrified of the crazy me.  I'm not sure how to reverse the situation, and I'm so sick of being stuck in this mess that I'm too discouraged to try.
Hold fast to dreams, for when dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly.  Hold fast to dreams, for when dreams go, life is a barren field frozen with snow.  -Langston Hughes

Mistress of Darkness

  • Level 37
  • *
  • Posts: 2322
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Mama
    • View Profile
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2004, 05:13:57 PM »
I don't know if this is very helpful, but my friend Morag once said that the best way to handle those dreams where you are being chased by monsters, etc. is to think about taking an automatic weapon into your dreams before you go to sleep. I don't know if it works, because my nightmares are usually about missing something, or forgetting something.

Umm, so, yeah, probably not very helpful.

How could you empower the "real you"?
" If i ever need a pen-name I'd choose EUOL, just to confuse everyone. " --Entropy

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

  • Administrator
  • Level 96
  • *
  • Posts: 19211
  • Fell Points: 17
  • monkeys? yes.
    • View Profile
    • herb's world
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2004, 05:20:41 PM »
actually, it sounds like you have some similarities with addictive behavior.

To forestall any freak outs: i'm NOT saying that you are on drugs, or that you're addicted to pr0n, or that you've got an eating disorder, or any of a hundred other addictions like behavioral changes. Not knowing you, I have to admit that it's possible you are, but I have no idea about it. I'm not saying you're addicted, I'm saying that what you describe has similarities to an addiction cycle. Something I'm a little familiar with, for various reasons. I'm not counselor, but I know a couple things.

1) addictive cycles feed on themselves. You feel down, so you do something rash, which gives you a temporary high or fulfillment but ultimately leaves you feeling more isolated and/or unworthy, so you separate yourself and feel down some more. Lather, rinse, repeat endlessly.

2) the best way to counter such a cycle in many cases is to open up yourself. To admit what it is you are doing that isolates you and/or makes you feel down and unworthy. Usually this is a shameful thing, which is why it isolates you. Again, I have no idea if you do such a thing. And neither am I suggesting this is the best forum to start opening up like that. A psychological counselor is a good place. Or a close friend. Or a loved family member. Those are good places to open up about what is hurting you.

3) this prevents you from being isolated, so you don't get as down. You then have a little more option to do things that make you happy instead of whatever it is you are addicted to because the psychological compulsion isn't as great. one more time, maybe you're not addicted, i'm not qualified to say that. So if you're not addicted to something, substitute relevant phrase with whatever it is that gets you down, etc. You may not be sure what that is. When in doubt:

4) do something uplifting that you love. Like writing. Or singing, or gardening or reading or leaving fish on random strangers' doors. The separating yourself from society (because, as your post implies, you're not fit for the company of others) and droping the things you love. are only accelerating your downward spiral. doing other things will stop the cycle.

the cycle you're in, even if it's not addictive, is what caused you to drop writing. therefore, picking up writing again will be a great way to stop the cycle.

There's nothing "Wrong" about you. Even if we posit that there IS some addiction or something, that hardly makes you less a person. Heaven knows we've got our own problems. Look at half of us and get to know us and you'll see how messed up we are. Plus I don't even know if there IS an addiction in you. Whatever's gotten hold of you, it's following a similar cycle to this though, and I hope what I've said can help you out.

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

  • Administrator
  • Level 96
  • *
  • Posts: 19211
  • Fell Points: 17
  • monkeys? yes.
    • View Profile
    • herb's world
Re: Fear and Doubt
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2004, 05:24:45 PM »
Oh, and to add to all that

5) you slip and fall a lot. That just happens in recovery. You have to accept it. Once you accept that it will happen (not that is "may" happen, or that there's a possibility of it, it WILL happen. You will feel like you're recovering from your mental state of disorder, and something will happen) those slips will be less discouraging.

The slips make you feel terrible, like you can't go any further. You think you should have it all down by now. But going way back to my alking parallel. You feel on your butt a LOT when you were learning to walk. What if any of those slips had kept you from trying again? You'd be an infantile little .. well.. retarded individual. Crawling every where you go, unable to grow up. But, if you just accept that the slips and falls come when you're trying to change your life, you can realize that sucha  slip isn't final at all. Slips happen. Falls happen. Pain happens. But they aren't the end of things. They're just part of the path upward