Author Topic: Writers' Round Table  (Read 8745 times)

Mistress of Darkness

  • Level 37
  • *
  • Posts: 2322
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Mama
    • View Profile
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2004, 07:04:28 PM »
Congratulations everyone.

I need outlining suggestions. The friend that I have been working on a novel with for . . . oh, the last 5-7 years, is in a writing mood again, and we really ought to get started. NANOWRIMO showed me that for serious writing, I first need a serious outline.

So, how do I do that? I appeal to anyone who has used, or uses one.
" If i ever need a pen-name I'd choose EUOL, just to confuse everyone. " --Entropy

EUOL

  • Moderator
  • Level 58
  • *****
  • Posts: 4708
  • Fell Points: 33
  • Mr. Prolific [tm]
    • View Profile
    • Brandon Sanderson dot com
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2004, 07:25:03 PM »
I work with scenes.  I build a story from several really good scenes that I want to tell--I take what I have, then connect them in a line.  Then I go about filling in the blank space with ideas and plottings.
http://www.BrandonSanderson.com

"Technically, I don't even have a brain."--Fellfrosch

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

  • Administrator
  • Level 96
  • *
  • Posts: 19211
  • Fell Points: 17
  • monkeys? yes.
    • View Profile
    • herb's world
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2004, 09:27:44 PM »
Peks' Tale grew out of one scene, really. I have a whole list of ideas that I wanted to use for "knights." However, only one of them actually ended up used. But that led naturally to how I was going to build to it. I didn't outline the later part until after almost all the first part was written. It was little things that came up during the writing of the first part that gave me the ideas for the end.

The main thing for an outline is  (and yeah, it sounds obvious) just knowing where you're going. What are you starting with? A character? A scene? A theme? A world? I'd do my outlining slightly different based on each of those.

With a character, I'd look at the issues most important to that character. So I'd get soem ideas for scenes that would develop those issues or character traits. A character is rarely in a vacuum, and you probably also have related characters that come up as you talk about the first character, so use them in those scenes. Then you need to connect the scenes. do that by deciding what the scenes you've got point to as a conclusion, and then drive all the connections to that conclusion.

A scene also can't exist in a vacuum. It has to have characters, so you can do the above with those characters. but Since the scene was your idea, maybe you want to make that the most important. What sorts of events could lead up to that scene. What are the consequences of the scene? keep making new scenes forward and backward till you have a good starting point and something that concludes it all.

A world is going to have a major event somewhere: a war, a succession issue, a great evil, a romance. The "world" can be small, like a town or a villa (maybe the event is a murder or a strange visitor or the discovery of a secret), or it can be a literal world with many nations (war, disease, social change), or even a collection of planets or systems in science fiction. Tell the story of that event. Or just find characters that are influential and interesting enough in your world to write about.

With a theme, you can go several routes. Create a character who embodies the theme, or make up a couple scenarios or settings that would communicate the theme. THen look above.

Naturally, this isn't all the ideas possible, but it should be enough to get you started. If you need more specific help, we'll need more than "how do I outline?" :)

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

  • Administrator
  • Level 96
  • *
  • Posts: 19211
  • Fell Points: 17
  • monkeys? yes.
    • View Profile
    • herb's world
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2004, 09:33:29 AM »
Pearls Before Swine has quickly become my favorite syndicated comic currently in the papers (followed closely be Get Fuzzy, but that's neither here nor there). Today's seems relevant.  Rat often writes novels about Angry Bob dying, but todays is different. Just for record keeping, here's a link to the comic in question, which has to do with how to create a scene:
"The Monkey Wept"

Mistress of Darkness

  • Level 37
  • *
  • Posts: 2322
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Mama
    • View Profile
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2004, 12:36:44 AM »
Sounds good. I'm glad I'm not the only one who starts a story with few cool characters and a few cool scenes.

So, here's my second question. Do you outline the entire story before you start writing or just outline the beginning?

I'm thinking that for me, at least, I'll need to outline the entire story before I begin the serious writing, but I will also need to be accepting of my deviations into scene writing when inspiration strikes.

I'd like to hear how everyone else does it though.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2004, 12:37:31 AM by Treyva »
" If i ever need a pen-name I'd choose EUOL, just to confuse everyone. " --Entropy

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

  • Administrator
  • Level 96
  • *
  • Posts: 19211
  • Fell Points: 17
  • monkeys? yes.
    • View Profile
    • herb's world
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2004, 07:39:26 AM »
heh, I hadn't outlined anything before beginning this novel. But at about the halfway point I realized I had introduced a lot of stuff and needed an outline to make sure I covered all the issues I'd brought up before the end.

With short stories I generally know exactly what's going to happen for the whole plot before I start actually writing. That doesn't mean the plot can't change. Like last night's story. Originally it wasn't going to involve the thief character, adn I knew where I was going. But then I had that idea and had to change the whole ending.

EUOL

  • Moderator
  • Level 58
  • *****
  • Posts: 4708
  • Fell Points: 33
  • Mr. Prolific [tm]
    • View Profile
    • Brandon Sanderson dot com
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2004, 03:09:30 PM »
Ug.  40 pages, but I teach in three hours and I got up at 1 a.m. after two hours of sleep.  Must...take...nap....

(The writing went very well, though.  Gotta love those eleven-hour writing sessions.  When it rains, it pours.)
http://www.BrandonSanderson.com

"Technically, I don't even have a brain."--Fellfrosch

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

  • Administrator
  • Level 96
  • *
  • Posts: 19211
  • Fell Points: 17
  • monkeys? yes.
    • View Profile
    • herb's world
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2004, 03:14:19 PM »
I *wish* I had time in my week somewhere for an 11 hour session of anything.

Mistress of Darkness

  • Level 37
  • *
  • Posts: 2322
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Mama
    • View Profile
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2004, 05:03:04 PM »
Still, 1,000 pages on Friday is nothing to sneeze at.

And EUOL, please understand that I'm jealous when I say you're disgusting. :p
" If i ever need a pen-name I'd choose EUOL, just to confuse everyone. " --Entropy

stacer

  • Level 58
  • *
  • Posts: 4641
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
    • Stacy Whitman's Grimoire
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2004, 05:07:13 PM »
I think you mean 1000 words, eh?
Help start a small press dedicated to publishing multicultural fantasy and science fiction for children and young adults. http://preview.tinyurl.com/pzojaf.

Follow our blog at http://www.tupublishing.com
We're on Twitter, too! http://www.twitter.com/tupublishing

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

  • Administrator
  • Level 96
  • *
  • Posts: 19211
  • Fell Points: 17
  • monkeys? yes.
    • View Profile
    • herb's world
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2004, 05:18:32 PM »
i WISH I'd written 1000 pages in a day. That would mean I'd written a whole trilogy. Or one Robert Jordan novel. Either way, I'd be good to go.

Mistress of Darkness

  • Level 37
  • *
  • Posts: 2322
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Mama
    • View Profile
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2004, 05:25:40 PM »
 :o Oops. I broke it.

Sorry about that.
" If i ever need a pen-name I'd choose EUOL, just to confuse everyone. " --Entropy

EUOL

  • Moderator
  • Level 58
  • *****
  • Posts: 4708
  • Fell Points: 33
  • Mr. Prolific [tm]
    • View Profile
    • Brandon Sanderson dot com
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2004, 08:39:21 AM »
Roar!  22 pages.  Not my biggest count, but this was a GOOD chapter.  

Which, by the way, is a very nice feeling since yesterday's chapter felt weak.  What do you guys do when you get a chapter like that?  I'm never sure if it's just the mood I'm in--it isn't like the chapter was terrible (if it was, I'd rewrite it.)  It just wasn't stellar.  Some of the connecting chapters kind of have to be that way, it seems.

Still, it's always nice to follow those up with a particularly good chapter.  That way you know that you haven't 'lost it', whatever 'it' is for that particular book.
http://www.BrandonSanderson.com

"Technically, I don't even have a brain."--Fellfrosch

stacer

  • Level 58
  • *
  • Posts: 4641
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
    • Stacy Whitman's Grimoire
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2004, 09:24:37 AM »
Right now I'm going back and revising my first two chapters to fit what I've finally figured out has to happen, and I think it fits the story better. So I'm not averse to going back and revising mid-stream, at least not this early in. I mean, I'm only on chapter 3. If this had happened in chapter 10 I'd be more wary of that.

But since this is my first time actually going all the way through chapter by chapter, I'm discovering my process as I go along. I've decided that I want to have a rough draft done by the end of the summer, so this gives me incentive to get a chapter a week done.
Help start a small press dedicated to publishing multicultural fantasy and science fiction for children and young adults. http://preview.tinyurl.com/pzojaf.

Follow our blog at http://www.tupublishing.com
We're on Twitter, too! http://www.twitter.com/tupublishing

EUOL

  • Moderator
  • Level 58
  • *****
  • Posts: 4708
  • Fell Points: 33
  • Mr. Prolific [tm]
    • View Profile
    • Brandon Sanderson dot com
Re: Writers' Round Table
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2004, 09:28:45 AM »
Hummm.  We'll have to try and find a way to make certain you accomplish your goal.

I know!  Nagging.  It's time tested and mother-approved.  (Especially if it's my mother.)
http://www.BrandonSanderson.com

"Technically, I don't even have a brain."--Fellfrosch