Ruined World

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

TLE is advertised in a number of national trade magazines, Sprig. I know. I've filled out the applications myself. Thsu your argument about their market isn't pertinent. Their market is international, since that is where they sell.

They're not asking about rejections. They're asking if anyone else is considering it at the same time. That's what "simultaneous" means. It IS their business. That's why they bring it up. The people considering your work have a right to know about any potential conflict. TLE has in the past considered running stories on their web site. This would be a DIRECT conflict with the situation at hand. If they are starting to do that, or even considering it, then it is dishonest not to tell them.

However, the most important reason is, again, for professionalism. If people know you have a tendency to elide the truth, then they are much less likely to even talk to you. You would have to be a MAJOR player for them to consider otherwise. You can't afford to make bad blood in a business like writing. Therefore, whether you think it's a real conflict or not, if it contradicts their policies, even in a harmless way, which this DOES, however you want to represent the facts, then you need to make them aware. It can only do you good.

[Spriggan]

Well I didn't know about the adds in the magazines.

There is no conflict if one magizine is asking for NA rites and another is asking for European rights.  If the magazines see it as such they should state they want world publishing or English language publishing rights.  To me, you cannot argue that a magazine deservers to know about what's going on overseas if they state they only want NA rights.  Same with the internet.  If, and we'll continue to use TLE here, they want to possibly use something on the internet then that should be stated and they should state they want those rights.  If they don't, then the plublication has no bases to argue what you are SE.

You argue it's professionalism, I aruge it's the plublications bullying authors and trying to take more rights away from the authors then is stated in their submission guidlines.  Since TLE isn't upfront with thier internet policy nor their international one then they're the one's being dishonest and unprofessional.

[stacer]

The submissions guidelines refers to manuscripts being submitted electronically, not contractual electronic rights. That might be where the confusion comes from.

[Spriggan]

no I think those are fairly clear Stacer.  

They don't state they may want the electronic rights, and that should be something stated.

[stacer]

Were you talking about this?

No electronic submissions will be considered.

Because that refers to electronic attachments to emails. They only take hard copy submissions.

And as far as how electronic rights are handled, you're right on how some publications take electronic rights without intending to ever do anything with them, etc. But it's unprofessional to simultaneously submit when they specifically say they do not want simultaneous submissions. If, when they offer a contract, it includes electronic rights and they have no plans to use those, you can negotiate them out so that it can be reprinted elsewhere. But it's just best not to be upfront about it. If you say in a cover letter, "This is a simultaneous submission," and note that the markets do not overlap, that's more honest than not saying so at all.

You are right about NA rights not overlapping with European or Australian, but I'd be very careful about electronic stuff, as it's still a very gray area.

[Skar]

I think what Sprig is saying (If I may restate...) is that a magazine that says it doesn't want simultaneous submissions should only get upset (as honest professionals) if an author sends them a submission he is simultaneously submitting in the area where they are actually buying rights.  

An author should be able to assume that a magazine which says it doesn't want simultaneous submissions actually means simultaneous submissions under the same rights package. (ergo NA Serial, (don't submit simultaneously to TLE and Asimovs))

Now, whether or not NA mags do get upset if you submit to a European rights mag at the same time you're submitting to them, has little or nothing to do with whether they should and a beginning author has to walk a fine line between exercising the full range of his rights and pissing off people in the industry.

[Spriggan]

Oh I know TLE has the right to say that Stacer, I also know it's easy enought to submit to somewhere else instead that might have different rules.  I'm just useing TLE as an example for this discussion since I know most people here are familiar with it and I'm sure it uses a common wording for their submissions.  What I'm getting at is why they, and others, do.

I agree that TLE shouldn't ask for the electronic rights if they don't plan on useing them, but they could mention that sometimes the do so make sure to let us know about them.  Same thing with international.  How hard is it to say that?  Also if being printed in Europe or Australia really annoys TLE that much why not ask for english language rights?  If it doesn't matter then why care if they do?

Edit: Ya Skar gets what I'm trying to say.

[Skar]

And on another note.  Were I to sell NA rights to a short story to a mag I'd expect more money (maybe a lot) for the electronic rights.  The web is a global marketplace and once it's been published on the web a story has nowhere else to go.  The web publishers would have to compensate me for what I could have made in all the other print markets if they want to publish it electronically.

[Spriggan]

Since this thread is also to help JP decided what to do let me add that I think that at least the one he's planning on publishing with only takes the electronic rights for a limited time, I think that's important.  Since you never know how the internet and electrionic publishing will evolve and permanitly looseing those rights can be detremental in the long run.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I don't disagree with any of the "magazines should."

I'm just saying that stamping and demanding your "rights" is going to piss people off, something you don't need at all, especially if they were going to let you do something anyway. Just be up front about it, and you'll get a reputation of a proactive worker who is easy to work with and honest. Thus, hiding what you're doing is only going to make things harder for you in the long run.

[stacer]

I understand what you're saying, Sprig--I just didn't understand that you weren't referring to the part I quoted above, which confused me. I agree with SE, though, that even though things *should* work a certain way, beginning writers need to be careful as they get started not to walk blindly into that gray area.

[MsFish]

JP--If you want to submit to TLE you probably don't have to wait four months.  Address the submission to me, (I'm the circulation director, so I check the mail anyway) and I'll tell the fiction director you're a friend of mine.  I'm pretty sure she'll shotgun you, which means you'll be read before anything else.  

Meaning, hey!  Submit to us!

[fuzzyoctopus]

Yeah, BYU students, staff, and friends of staff get shotgun status in slush reading. Hey i might even show up to read it!

[42]

The thing about simultaneous submissions, even when the publisher is purchasing different rights, is that they can be grounds for the publisher to withdraw the contract and can also be used as grounds to not pay the author.

It can also create some bad press for a new author if word gets out. (publishers sometimes place a great deal of status in publishing the first to publish such and such..) And in the world of short story science fiction word almost always get out. It is usually best to publish one place first then republish with the other publisher using differnt publishing rights later. That way no one has hurt feelings, usually.

Making one enemy in the publishing field can easily sink your career when you are just starting out.

[Oldie Black Witch]

Yeah. What Fish said. You'll get your reads with comment sheets and have a decision within a week or two if you submit to TLE. You'll be shotgunned for sure.

But about simultaneous submissions: just don't. We've had to throw away several submissions in the last few weeks because they were simultaneous. We also had an author who sent us a story that we rejected, and a few months later they included on their cover letter that the story we'd rejected had just been published elsewhere--it was a simultaneous submission. We won't read his stories anymore.