Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at

[House of Mustard]

Ah.  I meant Simultaneous Submissions then.

[guitarbabe]

Hmm, well, that's food for thought (I love analogies, what does that mean anyway?--no one need answer that because it will probably just make me look dumb).

I probably shouldn't have used all that space to post all ten tips, since it looks like 'Spriggan' found Savage's blog. You probably could have find it all there. Oh well. Get smarter I guess. Sorry, guys.

BUT I really like Savage's scrapper attitude. Sure, Gortcheetsa is right, we are limited to our knowledge of how WE found success, and every situation is different, though THIS is the way Savage found his national agent for his sci-fi books (intended for a broader audience than just LDS genre).

It's definitely different than the way that I've been trying it. I'll tell you that, but maybe that's why I like it...because as far as sci-fi goes, I haven't found success with my query letters...and I do feel like I need to try something different.

The SASE?--well, if you use that to track your rejections, do what you want to do. But if you're sending out simultaneous queries JUST to find out who's interested, and like Eric says there is nothing unethical with doing that, then who cares? The publisher? The agents? You'd think they'd be happy they didn't have to send out all those form letters.

Of course, if they throw the whole thing out without reading it because you don't seem professional enough to send a SASE, that's the only reason I wouldn't want to do it? Does that happen Stacer? It's so cool to have someone on the other end of this who is in the know.  

It's funny though that a thing like a SASE would be so controversial. I had no idea.

Stacer, what's your take?--IS IT unethical to send multiple 'queries' (not ms) from a publisher's standpoint?--or do you just have to mention in the query that that's what you're doing?

You don't just talk to one publisher/ agent at these con things, right? I'm sure you have to drop your card everywhere...to find someone?--of course, I don't have any experience there.

My only worry, which I really shouldn't HAVE to worry about (since I can't even get one taker at this point) is what would I do if more than one publisher wants to look at it? Obviously you'd have to tell them, but does that make a difference in the way they view your ms? Has this happened to any of you?

So, Stacer...what are some of the eye catching things that catch your interest with query letters? It's apparent that you like when they follow directions and give you what you ask for, BUT has there ever been a time when you were blown away by a query letter? You probably have to read tons of those things daily. Can you think of any that have stood out? Why? What did they do? It would have to be something good.

Hmm, just my thoughts...too many!

[stacer]

So, Stacer...what are some of the eye catching things that catch your interest with query letters? It's apparent that you like when they follow directions and give you what you ask for, BUT has there ever been a time when you were blown away by a query letter?

I thought I made myself pretty clear that if they give me a professional package--i.e., know how to make paragraphs (you'd be surprised the ways people think will make them stand out, like not using any paragraph breaks, etc.)--the only thing that stands out to me is a good story. That's what you're selling here. No gimmicks. No tricks. Just a good story.

So the idea is NOT to do some trick that makes you stand out. If you stand out, it's because you look unprofessional. The ONLY thing that should stand out is your voice and your story. Personally, the shorter the query the better--let the story speak for itself. Nothing is going to cover whether you're a good writer or not. If you're not a good writer, make yourself better, and that will stand out.

The only other thing I can think of is go to the cons and get to know what the editors are looking for. Go to LTUE, and I'll probably talk on some panel or other about what I'm looking for right now. If your work doesn't fit with what the house is looking for, it doesn't matter how good you are. If I'm looking for teen gothic horror and you give me your latest science fiction for adults, I'm probably not going to be interested. Know your market--that's one of the things the guy listed--and be a good writer. It's really that simple.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I dont' think the SASE is "controversial," I just don't think there's a good argument for not spending the $.40 to include one. That way you know if you've been seen, you can track where things have been and what the response was. Your writing's a business. It just seems to make sense to keep track of where/what you've been and done, so you don't waste effort. Tracking rejections can be a useful tool if done right.

[Parker]

Especially since it sometimes takes some houses so long to get back to you.  EUOL had to wait a year and a half before Tor accepted his book.  Although I guess they called him--didn't use a SASE to contact him.  And that was when he'd submitted the whole thing, not just a query.  I just think I'll stick with sending SASEs for my own sanity.  Otherwise, I'd never really know if they'd read it or not.  Okay--so I guess I'd STILL not know if they'd read it, but I'd know they got it, at least glanced at it, and rejected it.  Rejection's no fun, but it's peace of mind.

[guitarbabe]

Whoa, a year and a half? I'm guessing they asked for the first fifty pages and then he had to make changes before they would accept it? No wonder he's teaching a class. So...is it true that he got 27 rejections from other publishers before TOR gave him a chance? Writing the book isn't the hard part, is it? Authors just have to be a tough bunch.  Perhaps being oblivious and a little bit insensitive CAN be a blessing.

[guitarbabe]

Hee hee, I meant me...I'm the insensitive one.  

Hey, look, just the fact that I thought about how that might come out means I'm learning to be sensitive! My sisters would be proud of me.

[Spriggan]

Ya it took quite a long time and the only reason his editor ended up reading the submission was becasue EUOL has met him at a con and just talked with him about everything but his manuscript.  Then Mosha saw the manuscript one day and remembered talking to EUOL so he thought he'd read some of it, it just took a year for someone at TOR to finaly read it.

[Eric James Stone]

I think, based on an example Savage gave, that he thinks a SASE in a query letter is like asking to be rejected.  I'm not sure that I agree with that.  I can't really imagine an agent saying, "I was going to just reject this query without really paying it much attention, but since there's no SASE, I guess I'll check it out."

I think he's generally right, though, that there will not be any meaningful feedback from just a query.  (If the agent is not interested in the manuscript, is he really going to bother to give you feedback on how to make your query letter better?) And since simultaneous submissions of queries are not a problem, you don't really need to know your query has been rejected in order to send it elsewhere.

I can see one potentially large benefit to not including a SASE: Based on how I've seen some people (including myself sometimes) react to rejection letters by slipping into a writerly depression, it could actually be very helpful not to get rejection letters on queries.

The question is whether that benefit (plus saving on stamps and envelopes) is worth the risk of appearing unprofessional by not including a SASE.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

BTW, when I was at the Leading Edge, we DID send acceptances in people's SASEs. The only time I ever called anyone was when we wanted to accept his story but cut out the first 9 pages--we felt something that drastic merited a phone call.

And if something came in with no SASE, if it wasn't from someone whose name we recognized, it went straight into the recycling bin unread.

(We saved any and all paperclips though.)

Things may have changed now, but that was our policy back 5 years ago.

Of course, we didn't pay attention to queries either, because we weren't into novels.

[Eric James Stone]

Oh, I would definitely agree that short story submissions should contain a SASE.  Unless they're electronic submissions, of course.

[Brenna]

That policy is still the same, Ookla. At least as of several months ago.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

another thing about TLE is that it's not run by people who are doing it as their *job*, and it's easier to make SASE your primary contact method when you're only doing work on it for 5 hours a week.

[Spriggan]

If I was an editor I'd tell you the 100% guaranteed way to get me to look at your Manuscript would be to include $50+ in the envelope.  That doesn't mean I'll read it, though I will look at it.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I was gonna say... that's at least a way to get me to TELL you I looked at it.