Author Topic: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at  (Read 16417 times)

guitarbabe

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Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« on: January 25, 2006, 07:26:06 PM »
Hey guys, sorry if I'm overstepping my bounds, but I JUST wanted to make sure that everybody who's interested in this kind of thing got the word...and you can delete this after today or whatever...

Jeff Savage is speaking at 7:00 tonight (January 25th) at the Provo library on the second floor, and he's going to give ten tips that are guaranteed to get our manuscripts looked at.  AND (I love this part), he says one of the tips is so outrageous that the majority of us would be too scared to try it. I'm dying to know what that is...

Anyhoo, that's the scoop!
"You’ve got more issues than National Geographic!"

"You’re like a soggy brown banana, the only use for you now is to get cooked."

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Eric James Stone

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Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2006, 07:37:24 PM »
That'll be at the League of Utah Writers meeting, right?
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Skar

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Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2006, 07:50:38 PM »
Post the Ten Tips here!
Post the Ten Tips here!
Post the Ten Tips here!
Post the Ten Tips here!
Post the Ten Tips here!

Skar continues chanting until his boss slaps him.
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Eric James Stone

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Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2006, 08:15:24 PM »
Here's one:

Lace the manuscript with white phosphorus and pack it in an airtight container, so it bursts into flame when opened, thus saving the editor/agent the trouble of having to actually reject the manuscript.  But they would definitely look at it while it burned.
Eric James Stone
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guitarbabe

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Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2006, 08:30:40 PM »
Ha ha! Now, that could just possibly work!

For those who can't make it, I'll post 'em.
"You’ve got more issues than National Geographic!"

"You’re like a soggy brown banana, the only use for you now is to get cooked."

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guitarbabe

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Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2006, 03:58:20 AM »
Okay, I got some really good notes from Jeff Savage's lecture...if any of you are familiar with him, he wrote 'Cutting Edge,' 'Into the Fire,' and 'House of Secrets.'  And from what he said, I definitely WANT to read his 'House of Secrets' one, but that's beside the point...

Yeah, yeah, I probably should be going to bed, since I have to wake up pretty early tomorrow (I just got out of this clash party--we were supposed to wear clashing clothes...and I wore every different shade of red imaginable), so now I'm wired, so I might as well do something useful with my time, right? Just excuse whatever typos you might get.

Soooo (rub hands together because these were really good)...

#1  (It starts out kind of normal, but these first few are still important because it's what the agents/ publishers are looking for when they ask for the first fifty pages...AFTER you send them the killer query letter, which we'll get to later...)

Know the audience that you're writing to, know the competition, AND what makes you different AND what makes you the same (in a good way). Who is selling? Who are these writers and what are they writing? And then see who is publishing them. Find out who publishes your stuff (Okay, we know THAT one...maybe).

#2 Remember that the beginning of your book is all part of the sale's process. Your first sentence, should get your reader to read the second. Your first paragraph, should get your reader to read the second paragraph...and so on.

Do not start your book with a flashback or a dream, start where the action starts. You want to pull your reader in (and initially the agent or publisher) and leave them wanting more. Every time you have a flashback, it tugs you out of immediacy.

#3 Do not try to take unearned emotion. This means, don't start the scene with a guy weeping bitterly for his dead wife. Start the scene with the guy and his wife playing some board game together or something, show them teasing and flirting with each other and then after a page or two, kill her off. Then, the reader will be sad along with the character.

#4 Enter the Scene late, and leave it early. Movies do it all the time. It takes a while for the reader to figure it all out, but they are still pulled in immediately. You don't need all that scenery and setting. The readers can figure things out, so start in the action. Pull them in. Again, this is what the agents/ publishers are looking for.

#5 Get rid of typos, especially in the first fifty pages. No distractions. Clean it up (if you have to, read the pages out of order, so that you can concentrate on the typos and not the story.

Use 24 lb (I hope I said it right) bright white (95 white) paper of the highest quality to show that your story is quality. Make it stand out.



"You’ve got more issues than National Geographic!"

"You’re like a soggy brown banana, the only use for you now is to get cooked."

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guitarbabe

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Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2006, 04:00:09 AM »
Okay, once again, I'm hoping this is alright for me to submit...the last post was too long, I guess? If this is something you don't want posted here, feel free to delete it webmasters. I just think this is exactly what I was looking for.

Okay:

#6 Just because agents ask for the first fifty pages, doesn't mean that you have to get to the BIG moment in the first fifty pages. What is an agent looking at? An Agent wants to be pulled into the story, see that it's unique, and that the writing is good quality.

A good thing to do is to take the first fifty pages of your story and give it to your target audience (preferably ones who don't fear your wrath or think everything you do is perfect), and then have them mark it with red everytime the story lags or they get bored...and then fix it.

#7 Your query letter is your sale's pitch. Make it good. No matter what they ask for, send this...don't waste your money on sending a whole ms or waste yours and the publisher's time...just send this query package in and you will get results. If they are interested, they will ask for the first fifty pages:

The four things your query package must contain, and it must be in this order, so that it WILL be seen in this order:

A. First page: Submit one page of your book that is the most gripping...put the page numbers beneath...basically make it look like you just jerked it from your manuscript and stuffed it in. It's a writing sample.

B. Second page: Make a blurb (the kind you would read on a jacket cover of a book). Make the book sound unique, exciting.

C. Third page: The actual query letter. Keep it short and to the point. Title, page numbers, why you considered this agent (if necessary), possible marketing plans (especially if it's a smaller publishing company)

D. Fourth page: An 8x10 photograph of yourself. Agents/ publishers want to know if you're presentable. Why? Because if you can hack the marketing process (booksignings, interviews, meeting the public), that's most of the battle for selling a book. Publishers are looking for a product that they can sale and YOU are part of that product. No, you don't have to be a supermodel or anything like that, you just have to look capable, presentable...you get the picture.

#8 Do not send in a SASE. His reasoning?--when you ask a girl out on a date, you ruin your case when you say "Just in case you're not interested, here's an easy way out." He asked all those who had been published before if any of them had gotten an acceptance through a SASE. None of us had.

If the publishers/ agents were interested, they just called us or emailed us or tried to get a hold of us as quickly as possible. THEY DID NOT USE THE SASE! If you don't hear back from these agents, it just means that they're not interested. Who wants to get a rejection letter in an envelope addressed in your own handwriting anyway? Don't betray yourself.

Someone brought up the point, "Yes, but what if they decide to give you some good input?--he said, that unless they read the first fifty pages (which they have to ask for or they won't read it), it's basically useless at this point.

This was actually the tip that he said most of us wouldn't do, and he told us that if we REALLY wanted to put in a SASE we could, but it's just a waste of a stamp and another rejection that we'll get in the mail to spoil our day.

#9 Send out simultaneous submissions. If not, you're wasting your time (this was a BIG surprise to me...and so I asked some of the authors afterwards, 'Yeah, but what if they get mad?'--and they said, 'Well, then you can cross them off your list.'). Hmm?

He said if you know what you're doing, you can send out twenty at a time, but for beginners, maybe just five.

Oh, and this is important. Research these potential agents/ publishers before you send them your ms. Google them and see if anyone has had any complaints against them. Be careful of swindlers.

#10 And then finally, when an agent or a publisher asks for the first fifty pages and THEN they reject it, ask them why and then offer to make those changes and ask if they would THEN be willing to consider it?

If not, make those changes anyway and then try other places...and don't be afraid to try the original place again after you've made even more changes (and cite those who asked you to make those changes).

Just be polite, get a thick skin, do the work and ask the publishers/ agents if they're interested yet...yet...yet?--Be sure to tell them that you've made important changes to the book. And of course, this is ONLY after they've asked to see the first fifty pages.

PS: Don't be in a big rush to get a rejection from the editor (after you've turned in the fifty pages). The longer it takes to get back to you (after they've accepted the fifty pages), the better your chances are. So, just go on to your next project and wait.

PSS: More people are making a living as a professional baseball player than as an author. So go for it! Though you just might have to get a side job.

So, those are the tips. I think I'll try them out. I'm still nervous about that stinking SASE, but I'm going to think of this as an experiment, ya know? I'll tell you how it goes...if I get blacklisted or not, huh?
"You’ve got more issues than National Geographic!"

"You’re like a soggy brown banana, the only use for you now is to get cooked."

www.stephaniefowers.com

Spriggan

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Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2006, 06:03:40 AM »
If by simultaneous submissions they mean sending out different stories then that's fine, but if its the same story then that really shows a lack of professionalism and understanding the businesses.  Heck even I know you don't do that and I don't write, the editors on our site (ookla, Stacer) will tell you that doing it is crazy and the others (like SE and 42) will tell you that there are legal reasons why you don't do it.  But who knows maybe that works with LDS publishers, the market here is much stranger then the rest of the world so it wouldn't surprise me.

Besides that everything else he said doesn't seam all the new or shocking I've heard it before, but do have a brother that's published and hang out with a lot of people trying to get published so take that for what it's worth.

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http://www.jeffreysavage.com/index.htm
« Last Edit: January 26, 2006, 06:16:09 AM by Spriggan »
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Eric James Stone

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Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2006, 06:38:27 AM »
Thanks for posting those, guitarbabe.  Your notes are a whole lot better than mine.

Just to clarify the simultaneous submission point, there is nothing unprofessional in sending out simultaneous queries about the same manuscript.  I believe that's what he was talking about, rather than simultaneous submission of the full manuscript.
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stacer

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Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2006, 08:03:05 AM »
Two things: if you send a photo of yourself, I'll think you can't let your writing stand for itself (plus, I'll just think it's a little weird). And if you send me a picturebook, I'll know that you didn't read our guidelines, which clearly state that we don't publish picturebooks. So the rule is, like I said on the other thread: write a good book. Submit it. Repeat.

All his rules are okay enough, I guess. Certainly it'll help people present a more professional package (except the picture thing). Simultaneous submissions are okay if they're noted on the submission, but you'll also note that if you read our guidelines, we never want a full manuscript, just 3 chapters and a query, with a synopsis of the book and a series proposal. So like Eric and Sprig said, don't simultaneously submit manuscripts. Queries are okay.

One thing that he didn't say that I wish he had, because so many writers ignore them--can you guess what it is?--though he did hint at it: read the publisher's guidelines. I can't stress that enough. If they didn't ask for it, and you send it in, you're that less likely to work for them in the future, especially if you send something every few months. I start to remember, "wait, didn't I just tell this person we don't publish that?"

Oh, and if your book isn't good and you don't send a SASE, I'm just going to throw it away, so you're taking a chance with not sending the SASE. If you want to know my response, calling or emailing to follow up is usually not a good idea, and my slush turnaround is quite long because I'm booked solid through the next several years. So, if you don't mind just sending something out into the void and never knowing if it was rejected, sure, don't send a SASE. But that's not going to increase your chances of acceptance, and if it's not a good book on its own, you just won't ever hear from it again.
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guitarbabe

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Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2006, 11:00:28 AM »
Oh yeah, thanks Eric!

He was talking about simultaneous queries. Although I think it's interesting, Stacer that you say if they DON'T want the book, they want the SASE. So, I guess if you're still looking for feedback from a query, go for it.

Just a question, Stacer? Do you give feedback on queries? It would be interesting to know.
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Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2006, 11:06:05 AM »
It occurs to me that his reasoning for not sending a SASE are very ... odd. Of course you don't get a response by SASE if they want to buy. WHy would they do that? YOu send the SASE so you can keep track of what's happening with your ms. And who really expects an editor to call them up and tell them they don't want to buy?

stacer

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Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2006, 11:57:57 AM »
Quote
Just a question, Stacer? Do you give feedback on queries? It would be interesting to know.


Depends on how much time I have. We don't have an editorial assistant, so I have to do it myself, which isn't at the top of my priority list. I just yesterday took the afternoon to go through a shelf-full of slush, and only had enough time to put in form letters. I wish I could give more detailed feedback for people with promise, but usually I just don't have enough time. But the SASE isn't even for my feedback. It's to know you can cross that publisher off your list and move on to the next one.
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Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2006, 12:09:44 PM »
"There are three rules for writing a novel.  Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."
--W. Somerset Maugham

Generally speaking, and meaning no disrespect to Savage or anyone else, any author's experience is extremely limited to their own publisher or the various publishers who rejected them.  Consequently, they know what their publisher likes and doesn't, and they "know" what didn't work with other publishers they submitted to.  Hence, I don't really believe much publishing advice authors offer.  I'd put ten times as much stock into the advice from an editor (like Stacer) than any author.

An regarding multiple submissions, that's really common (and seemingly acceptable) in the LDS market.  I don't know why.  I think that it's indicative of why established LDS authors have trouble getting published nationally -- it's an entirely different ball of wax, with entirely different rules.
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Eric James Stone

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Re: Ten tips guaranteed to get MS looked at
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2006, 01:43:24 PM »
Even though some publishing professionals use the terms interchangeably, it's best to make a distinction between "simultaneous submissions" and "multiple submissions."

Simultaneous submissions: Submitting the same manuscript to more than one market at the same time.

Multiple submissions: Submitting more than one manuscript to the same market at the same time.
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