Author Topic: Warbreaker: Free Ebook  (Read 164663 times)

EUOL

  • Moderator
  • Level 58
  • *
  • Posts: 4708
  • Fell Points: 33
  • Mr. Prolific [tm]
    • View Profile
    • Brandon Sanderson dot com
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #75 on: July 27, 2006, 08:41:52 PM »
I appreciate the voices, though I will ask for clarification.  Did they mean the reason Vivenna chose to keep the Breaths, or the reason she took them in the first place?

I meant for it to be unwilling whether you take Breaths.  Lemks gave them to her, and she didn't have any choice but to let them come into her.  If that isn't clear, it needs a rewrite.

Or, are you worried about why she kept them?  If that's the case, then I need a better argument there.  
http://www.BrandonSanderson.com

"Technically, I don't even have a brain."--Fellfrosch

Miriel

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 30
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #76 on: July 27, 2006, 10:41:47 PM »
Ookla, in response to your question...I guess so.  There's a lot going on, and a lot of unanswered questions.  Who knows what would have been better? (For example, dieties like Blushweaver would be a lot less paranoid without Siri there -- maybe the war would have come slower if they got what they expected?)  To have it stated as fact instead of "Vivena thought that..." was just jarring to me, like a sudden declaration from heaven (because who but the author can really know at this point what would have worked out best?).  And since it distracted me, I mentioned it.  

42

  • RPG Editors
  • Level 56
  • *
  • Posts: 4350
  • Fell Points: 8
  • Unofficial World Saver
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #77 on: July 28, 2006, 12:22:38 AM »
Rereading the end of chapter 13, I think I see where my confusion lies. (Not that I'm not always confused, but bear with my moment of foggy lucidity.)

I can see that Vivenna is appalled by the idea of taking breadths. And I can see that Lemk wants to give her his breadths as a way of cleansing his soul. What kills the moment is the mercenaries talking about how much breadths are worth. It makes a very secular/practical argument to what should be a very moral/spiriual moment. Thus, it greatly diminishes Vivenna's stance that the bartering of breadths is immoral when she wantonly falls into the position of bartering. It seems strange that Vivenna would find the trafficking of breadths to be so abhorent, then start thinking about on to who else Lemk could barter the breadth.

As is, this implies that Vivenna had at least some choice. She could have just run away from Lemk at that moment. The needing info/codes/passwords thing is kind of a weak reason. (again secular reasoning vs moral imperative)

I think your trying to show how useful the breadths would be to Vivenna's mission, which I feel might be better placed after Lemk gives the breadth to an unwilling Vivenna. It could possibly be placed before they meet Lemk, as a way of foreshadowing.

Either way, it would be clearer if Lemk just grabs Vivenna and gives her the breadths. No chance to pass it off to sommeone else. No chance for Vivenna to refuse.
The Folly of youth is to think that intelligence is a subsitute for experience. The folly of age is to think that experience is a subsitute for intelligence.

demented_yam

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 24
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #78 on: July 28, 2006, 05:02:48 PM »
two things i don't like about the beginning:

you start off with a character in CH1 that (to me at least) is a lot more interesting than any of the other characters (except possibly Lightsong), then we never see him again.


another thing: I like the contrast between Hallendren and Bevalis, but the juxtaposition would be much greater is we had more of a chance to get to know Bevalis

I think (and i'm just throwing this out here) the story should start in Bevalis, from Vivena's POV.  That gives us a chance to get to know not only the city, but Vivena's mindset, and we start out seeing the drab, uninteresting world of Bevalis.

it shoud then move on to Siri's POV, showing Bevalis from the POV of someone who really doesn't fit in there.

Our first view of Hallendren should be through Siri's eyes, not through Vasher's.

The impact of seeing the city for the first time is lessened because not only have we already seen it through Vasher's eyes, but we haven't seen enough of Bevalis to contrast.

Giving us a look of Bevalis through Vivena's eyes does a few things: it shows us the city, increasing the contrast when we enter Hellendren.  It gives us a chance to get a background on the situation between the kingdoms, and provides us with an idea of the political tensions.


Now, if Vasher's escape is very plot important, it can either be shifted to after we've already seen Hallendren, or it can be told from another POV altogether.  For example, we could learn of it during a conversation between Lightsong and one of his priests (perhaps Llarimar is the priest that Vasher punched? they would have a conversation about Llarimar's black eye, and Llarimar would tell him of the aftermath of the breakout)

Peter Ahlstrom

  • Administrator
  • Level 59
  • *
  • Posts: 4902
  • Fell Points: 2
  • Assistant to Mr. Sanderson
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #79 on: July 28, 2006, 09:43:12 PM »
So...you're suggesting it start out boring, in a drab, uninteresting place? And you expect people to keep reading?

I'm not saying you don't have valid points, but consider the point of a prologue.
All Saiyuki fans should check out Dazzle! Emotionally wrenching action-adventure and quirky humor! (At least read chapter 6 and tell me if you're not hooked.) Volume 10 out now!

demented_yam

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 24
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #80 on: July 29, 2006, 01:53:58 PM »
true...

but Starting in Hallendren loses a lot of the impact of the entrance scene later.


perhaps the prologue could be told decades earlier: when the revolution took place and the monarchy was exiled.

that would give us a background of the political situation, start off in exciting and important times, and still keep the look and feel of modern Hallendren hidden.  (I assume that the flamboyant decor is the result of the new pantheon of gods, and did not exist when the old monarchy was in power?)

Miriel

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 30
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #81 on: July 30, 2006, 12:05:52 AM »
I feel like I need to disagree with you, demented_yam.  Starting with the old war, and the exile of the Royals...it's backstory.  If I read it in chapter one, I wouldn't care.  It's only as the history affects the life of the main characters (that I do care about) that I want to hear the history.  A disguised info-dump at the begining...too many fantasy novels have that fault.  I like the way in Warbreaker that the history and politics is dribbled out, chapter by chapter, as it becomes relevant.  This was one of the things that I loved about Elantris: the prologue was short, exciting to read, and the first chapter wasn't a lecture.  That alone made me excited to read it: I knew I was in for something good.  That's my 2 cents on the matter, anyway.

demented_yam

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 24
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #82 on: July 30, 2006, 03:31:59 AM »
Those are just suggested solutions to a problem that I see:  the scene where Siri comes to Hallendren loses its impact for two reasons:

1) We've already seen Hallendren, so while Siri is experiencing it for the first time, the rest of us are already 'been there, done that' and we don't really experience the dramatic reveal that we're supposed to.

2) We haven't seen enough of Bevalis to contrast.  we know that Siri has been living in this drab world all her life, dreaming of something better, but the rest of us have colors aplenty, and we don't see the experience the way she does.  Give us at least another chapter is Bevalis.  Soaking in a warm bath just makes the bucket of ice water seem that much colder.


The best comparison I can draw is the movie 'the wizard of OZ'

the first part of the movie is all in black&white, and then it switches to color when she comes to OZ.  now, while the real world isn't quite as drab as dorothy's, the visual message that we get when we go from shades of grey to the beautiful land of OZ matches exactly to what dorothy's experiencing: a strange and wonderful new land.

Now, if we had spent the first five minutes of the movie with the scarecrow, and then switched to doroth's story, the scene where The house lands, and dorothy sets her eyes on OZ loses its impact because we've already seen it.  Dorothy might be stunned by this new world, but the rest of us have already been here, and while dorothy is left gasping, the audience would just be waiting for her to get over it and move on, instead of gasping alongside her.

Take it as you wish, but I think that giving us a sneak peek of Hallendren through Vasher's eyes makes Siri's entrance a wasted scene.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 03:33:36 AM by demented_yam »

42

  • RPG Editors
  • Level 56
  • *
  • Posts: 4350
  • Fell Points: 8
  • Unofficial World Saver
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #83 on: August 01, 2006, 01:58:35 AM »
So I finished reading chapters 15 and 16.

Not a whole lot to say. I was wondering if it was really necessary to seperate Siri's storyline in chapter 15. Not sure if it would make a big difference other than you would have one less break.

I'm also wondering if your number values are a little inflated with the number of breaths people are holding. 500 breaths, that's like a small high school. The king having two breaths a day for 50 years is 36,500 breadths, or a little more than the population of Liechtenstein or roughly a third of the population of Paris in 1500 A.D.

It seems as though almost everyone who isn't a priest or returned must have given up their breaths. That would make for one rather sick society.
The Folly of youth is to think that intelligence is a subsitute for experience. The folly of age is to think that experience is a subsitute for intelligence.

demented_yam

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 24
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2006, 03:31:01 PM »
Quote
So I finished reading chapters 15 and 16.

Not a whole lot to say. I was wondering if it was really necessary to seperate Siri's storyline in chapter 15. Not sure if it would make a big difference other than you would have one less break.

I'm also wondering if your number values are a little inflated with the number of breaths people are holding. 500 breaths, that's like a small high school. The king having two breaths a day for 50 years is 36,500 breadths, or a little more than the population of Liechtenstein or roughly a third of the population of Paris in 1500 A.D.

It seems as though almost everyone who isn't a priest or returned must have given up their breaths. That would make for one rather sick society.


don't forget that you've got an entire pantheon of gods (thirty or so, was it?) who take one breath a day.

Spriggan

  • Administrator
  • Level 78
  • *****
  • Posts: 10582
  • Fell Points: 31
  • Yes, I am this awesome
    • View Profile
    • Legacies Lost
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #85 on: August 01, 2006, 03:43:55 PM »
So Wikipedia says that Warbreaker is Creative Commons, which I don't think is true since it says that no where on his sample chapters or website.  Then again this is wikipeida and as we know with them it's only matter of convincing a majority it's true regardless of the actual facts.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060801-7396.html
Quote

Last night, Stephen Colbert aired a segment on Wikipedia in which he discussed "wikiality," the process of creating the reality one wants to believe in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Sanderson
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 03:46:03 PM by Spriggan »
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

Chuck Norris is the reason Waldo is hiding.


EUOL

  • Moderator
  • Level 58
  • *
  • Posts: 4708
  • Fell Points: 33
  • Mr. Prolific [tm]
    • View Profile
    • Brandon Sanderson dot com
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #86 on: August 01, 2006, 04:06:30 PM »
Sprig, I've mentioned on my site making it creative commons, Sprig.  I need to throw up the copyright, but this is generally what you do when you release a book on your website.  

42, you're dead on.  I need to make this one breath a week for the regular gods, then 2 for the God King.

500 in a regular person, however, doesn't strike me as being as much of a problem.  I imagine there being great heritages of Breath being passed down.  When someone who has fifty Breath gets close to death, you can bet that his family urges him to pass it on before he goes.  
http://www.BrandonSanderson.com

"Technically, I don't even have a brain."--Fellfrosch

Skar

  • Moderator
  • Level 54
  • *****
  • Posts: 3979
  • Fell Points: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #87 on: August 01, 2006, 04:47:29 PM »
This is the oddest thread to catch the end of...  ???
"Skar is the kind of bird who, when you try to kill him with a stone, uses it, and the other bird, to take vengeance on you in a swirling melee of death."

-Fellfrosch

Spriggan

  • Administrator
  • Level 78
  • *****
  • Posts: 10582
  • Fell Points: 31
  • Yes, I am this awesome
    • View Profile
    • Legacies Lost
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #88 on: August 01, 2006, 04:51:36 PM »
You know Creative Commons doesn't add anything to copyrights?  It's actually a joke among copyright people from what I've read:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1838249,00.asp

Quote

Years ago, to gain a copyright, you had to fill out a form and send in the material to the Library of Congress. Now you just use the word "copyright," add your name and a date, and publish it. What could be easier? Apparently simplicity was more than some people could handle, so they invented Creative Commons to add some artificial paperwork and complexity to the mechanism. And it seems to actually weaken the copyrights you have coming to you without Creative Commons. Oh, brother!

Will this nonsense ever end?


Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

Chuck Norris is the reason Waldo is hiding.


Spriggan

  • Administrator
  • Level 78
  • *****
  • Posts: 10582
  • Fell Points: 31
  • Yes, I am this awesome
    • View Profile
    • Legacies Lost
Re: Warbreaker Sample Chapters
« Reply #89 on: August 01, 2006, 05:06:49 PM »
Quote
This is the oddest thread to catch the end of...  ???

I assume you were talking about my deleted post, which I removed since I was talking about one type of CC license while I wasn't sure which on EUOL had decided upon using (there's like 4-5 I guess).  The thing about it is it seams silly to CC it when all you have to do is put Copyright 2006 Brandon Sanderson, you're free to distribute this document in it's entity only. Or something like that, hence my posting of the above article.  CC is just some internet fad that people who never spend 10 minutes googling copyright laws think are necessary.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 05:07:33 PM by Spriggan »
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

Chuck Norris is the reason Waldo is hiding.