Author Topic: Warbreaker: Free Ebook  (Read 279726 times)

BlackWiz

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #675 on: March 22, 2008, 05:57:06 AM »
Vasher was definitely returned, he mentioned the loss of memory in the epilogue.  Denth also didn't have enough breath the acheive 5th heightening but was immortal anyway.  As far as I know they could only hide the "divine" breath, not a couple thousand extra ones.  This extends to Arsteel as well, leaving only Yesteel and Shashara.  Of course I could be totally wrong and missed something.

dawncawley

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #676 on: March 23, 2008, 06:21:58 AM »
No, you pretty much have it right BlackWiz. Vasher, Denth, and Arsteel are all Returned, and yes, I believe the only Breath they can hide is the Divine Breath, unless they put them into clothes and such.

As for Yesteel and Shashara, I believe both to have been Returned, if only for the fact that I think it mentions in the Epilogue that Vasher was seeking Yesteel. I would have to look at it again to verify, and I am not on my own computer, so I don't have the text downloaded here. The only one that isn't mentioned for sure as being Returned is Shashara, but I believe she was, as one of the Five Scholars. I believe they all were.

Blane_Firehand

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #677 on: April 08, 2008, 04:05:28 PM »
Warbreaker is excellent, so far my favorite of Sanderson's works (having previously read Elantris and Mistborn/Well of Ascension). I would have to say that while Vivenna was my least favorite of the characters at the beginning of the book, she was definitely my favorite at the end. This says something about her character development. I especially like the contrast between Siri and Vivenna, and the way they end up switching rolls (responsibility vs freedom).

Some people have complained about some of the mysteries that weren't answered. I would say that this is an indication of good writing (note I said mysteries, not inconsistencies). This gives Sanderson material to expand upon in future books. At the very least, it hints at a larger world behind the book.

One thing that bothered me slightly was the battle between the lifeless and the statues (D’Denir). I'll have to reread to see exactly what's written, but it seems that said battle deserves at least paragraph or so (I don't recall it being covered at all).  Edit: I reread, there's more than I remember. But still not very much.
Another's comment (sorry, don't recall who made it) about lack of information on what was happening back in Idris seemed a valid point.

After reading others' posts, I feel that I need to reread to make intelligent comments. I may even have to read earlier versions!

Note: I originally thought Sanderson was crazy for releasing a free book. However, after reading I would definitely say I plan on buying it when it comes out (and I have the money).
« Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 04:52:36 PM by Blane_Firehand »

Cosmic_AC

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #678 on: April 11, 2008, 04:12:57 AM »
While the role-switching between the two Idrian siblings was largely well-done, there was a bit too much of Vivenna going "Oh my gosh look how much I changed!" throughout the book.  In several places, it is rather obvious to the reader that she has undergone quite a bit of character development -- without needing to rub it in all the time.

It still isn't very clear why the Siri's father chose to switch them, other than because it turned out better in the end.  Siri's father presumably didn't really know about the situation in the Court of the Gods much better than Vivenna did, so why would he decide Siri was a better choice?  I kept waiting for a flashback or a PoV change to someone in Idris or something that would explain the king's motives, but I must have missed it if it ever came.

I hope I'm not making a terrible fool of myself by overlooking something...

dawncawley

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #679 on: April 11, 2008, 05:41:23 AM »
To him, losing Vivenna to the God King was something that he couldn't handle, emotionally. While he loved his children, it didn't take a genius to see that Vivenna was favored above all, and Siri was the one that was the most trying for him. I think it was simply that Siri's loss would not have hurt him as much as Vivenna's, nothing more than that. It was the correct choice in the end, but he had no way of knowing that when he did it. At least that is how I remember it.



dude321

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #680 on: April 14, 2008, 06:54:28 PM »
I've just finished the book and I'm a little confused as to why it was so easy for Vasher to escape from prison in the prologue.  Didn't they realize he was an Awakener?
Wonderful book ( better than Mistborn or Elantris though I never thought I would say that)...
I'll be looking forward for it in hard copy eventually.

dawncawley

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #681 on: April 15, 2008, 02:35:25 AM »
No, they didn't know he was an Awakener. That was what made his escape so easy. None of them had more than their one breath, if I read it right, and he only had a small amount at the time. He received many, many more from the prisoner he killed.

SarahG

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #682 on: June 02, 2008, 09:23:01 PM »
First, I apologize for resurrecting this - but then again, it is a sticky thread, so doesn't that make it fair game?  In any case, after reading all 46 pages and taking notes on versions 3.5 and 4.2, I couldn't resist sharing my thoughts, for what they're worth.

1. I agree with many that BioChroma is not an ideal term, for the reasons discussed. A couple other terms also struck me as incongruous:
   - "Monk" is generally a male term, at least in our world; it seems almost as bizarre to me to have female "monks" as if you had male "nuns".  I might suggest a more gender-neutral term, such as "devoted".
   - "Mercenaries," in our world, are soldiers hired by a foreign army, engaging in combat on behalf of a nation not their own.  I don't think of hired muscle such as Denth & his crew as mercenaries, because they are not really soldiers engaging in combat between nations; they are individual toughs/assasins/bodyguards hired by individual people for all kinds of purposes - not necessarily warfare.  I do understand that "mercenary" connotes the sense of loyalty to money rather than anything/anyone else; however, I don't believe it describes what they DO for that money very accurately.

2. My votes on a few issues previously discussed:
   - I too guessed that Lightsong was Arsteel, until the timing of his death/return didn't match.
   - I too thought Vasher had mind-control powers, not only from when he made the child forget her captivity, but later in chapter 57, when Denth says, "I can't forget," Vasher says, "I can make you.  I know the Commands."
   - I too was astonished to discover that Returned can be injured or killed, other than by self-sacrifice.  In chapter 5, Llarimar tells Lightsong, "Your body is immune to all toxins."  (This seems to contradict the fact that Denth poisoned Lemks - although maybe this is because Lemks was not Returned.)  Also, in the Ars Arcanum, it states that the Fifth Heightening grants functional immortality.  Also, in chapter 15 Lightsong says, "They can't execute me.  I'm a god."  Of course, from the way the story comes out we know that "functional immortality" must refer to immunity from disease and aging, but the way the story unfolds it seems misleading; the reader is shocked along with Lightsong to discover he can be injured and Blushweaver can be killed.  (On the other hand, there is a slight hint in chapter 47, where Lightsong thinks, "Leaving [Command Phrases] in the hands of a single god was to risk losing the Phrase through assassination."  I didn't catch this hint in my first reading, but it is there.)
   - I too felt the Lightsong ->investigative accountant twist fell a bit flat.  It didn't seem to me that someone trained to audit books would naturally go about investigating murders and questioning witnesses.
   - I too felt like there wouldn't be enough Breaths to go around - even with the change from one-a-day to one-a-week.  Not only does Hallandren need a large population, but the Court of the Gods needs a very large budget to reimburse all those people.  I get the impression a single Breath is worth about $10,000?  If so, the purchase of Breaths alone, for the Returned and the God King, would be around $14 million a year.  When you add in salaries for perhaps 3000 priests and servants (I'm trying to be conservative here - we know that each Returned had at least 100), plus the upkeep of all the extravagant palaces, this system gets very very expensive.  Either this religion collects a lot of offerings (which are never mentioned), or the taxes are quite high, or the population is much larger than I'd been led to believe.  In any case, it might deserve to be mentioned.

3. A few picky notes on apparent inconsistencies:
   - In the prologue, Vasher says "Thank you" to the Awakened straw man.  Later (ch 49) he apologizes to Awakened objects.  Other places, we don't see him saying anything at all as he retrieves his Breaths.
   - If Vahr was a Pahn Kahl, and was arrested for inciting rebellion, then why were the people of Hallandren so unsuspicious of people from Pahn Kahl?  Wouldn't Vahr's actions have clued them in to the Pahn Kahl people's desire to overthrow them?
   - Why were Bluefingers' fingers blue?  Didn't their script use all colors of ink?  Then again, perhaps his work as a scribe would not generally involve the more formal Artisan's Script.  Maybe this is a non-issue.
   - In chapter 19, the new house Denth finds is "fenced on either side with large palm trees, obscuring the view should someone try to spy from the neighboring buildings."  As one who grew up in the tropics, this seemed strange to me.  All the palm trees I've seen are bare trunks with only the tops bushy - large palm trees might screen 3rd floor windows, but not lower ones.  I would suggest mango trees, instead; they can be very large, too, and would provide much better cover.  Or at least have some smaller palm trees interspersed with the large ones.
   - Chapter 21: "Vasher looked up, shocked but not really surprised."  What exactly does that mean?  How can he be shocked if he's not surprised?  I think of shock as simply a stronger form of surprise.  "Startled but not really surprised" might work better. 
   - In chapter 22, Vivenna thinks, "Snakes might be common in the jungle, but that doesn't mean people are excited about seeing them."  I would have expected her to come up with a metaphor from the mountains or highlands, not from the jungle.
   - Chapter 26: "Bloody wounds upon bloody uniforms upon bloody skin."  How are the wounds upon the uniforms?  The other way around would make more sense: "Bloody uniforms upon bloody wounds upon bloody skin."
   - In chapter 32, Siri had "rarely even seen any Awakeners in the Court.  Even when she did, she didn't really care.  The monks had spoken against such things, but, well, she had paid about as much attention to them as she had her tutors."  This seems strange to me.  At the beginning, Siri had certainly been bothered by the presence of Awakeners, at least she was horrified to realize that the doctor examining her was one, and that he had touched her.  So it's clearly an Idris sensibility that she has lost or outgrown.  This might be plausible with her character development, except that she has NOT lost or outgrown her Idris modesty, as shown soon after this scene, when Bluefingers again surprises her in her bath.
   - In chapter 35, why doesn't Vasher imprison Vivenna more carefully?  That is, gag her more securely, use chains instead of ropes, and other usual anti-Awakener precautions?  He knows she holds a lot of Breaths; he doesn't know that she is either unable or unwilling to use them.  It would make sense for him to be more careful.
   - In chapter 36, how does Susebron chew and swallow, especially such large mouthfuls, with no tongue?  This isn't my area of expertise, but it seems to me that the tongue is a very useful organ for moving food around in the mouth, positioning it properly for the teeth to grind it, then pushing it towards the throat.  How does Susebron manage these things without it?
   - In chapter 49, is Vivenna practicing with cloth or with ribbon (to fetch her cup)?  I don't think of those as synonyms.
   - In chapter 50, Siri "allowed herself to be led back to her rooms."  I had understood that she didn't have "rooms", but that the whole palace was open to her use.
   - In chapter 54, Llarimar says, "When we found you dead...I knelt above your body."  Wasn't Lightsong lost at sea, drowned in a storm?  How did they find his body?  I guess maybe it washed up on shore...
   - In chapter 55, how do the Pahn Kahl change the Lifeless commands so quickly?  It took Lightsong several hours, and that was only for a fourth of them.  Perhaps the Pahn Kahl divided up the work, that would explain it.

OK, that's all the constructive criticism I've got at the moment - obviously, feel free to consider or ignore whichever bits you wish.  Thanks for this opportunity to express opinions about a work in progress.  My enjoyment of the story was much increased by the possibility that I might, in some small way, influence its final form.
He ate my horse.

Cruciform

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #683 on: June 05, 2008, 03:04:37 AM »
If Susebron has no tongue, why does he start going for the extra deserts?

Reaves

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #684 on: June 08, 2008, 01:21:50 AM »
I would just say, add in more about Pahn Kahl. When i first read about the "Bluefingers is from Pahn Kahl, i kinda ignored it and assumed it was just part of an author's worldbuilding.
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theletterP

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #685 on: June 13, 2008, 03:49:35 PM »
It has been a couple of weeks since I finished reading the book so I dont have too many comments about specific details, I will have to go back to a couple of spots I remember and re-read before commenting.  But I did want to give a quick post about the project overall. 

First off, I really enjoyed the book.  I found reading a draft quite interesting actually and would never consider holding any errors or inconsistencies against an author.  While I dont know if reading this will impact my future purchase of Warbreaker (we will see when it comes out), I can say that after reading this book I will definately be looking at purchasing Mistborn and Elantris in the future.  I will be honest in that the reason I started reading Warbreaker was to get a feel for the "guy who will finish the WOT series".  I feel kind of guilty referring to Brandon that way now and feel reassured in regards to AMOL.  I am happy to say that I feel like I have discovered another author to read.  I have been reading Fantasy/Sci-Fi for 15+ years and always enjoy finding a new series or author to read. 

Anyway,  thanks to Brandon for doing this and I really do think it was a fantastic idea.  Keep up the good work!

Flaamwing

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #686 on: June 24, 2008, 03:19:25 PM »
Hi, I just stumbled across this book yesterday, and took the rest of the night to read it :P

Very well written book, and yes - I will likely purchase it.   I havent read all the comments in this forum, as there are 45 pages worth!!! and I'm limited on time right now.  However, I noticed 2 issues that disrupt the story for me.

1) How is it that Vasher can blithely say that the royal family has returned blood in their parentage, when returned can't have children?
2) It was never explained why the god-kings would need an heir.  If they were getting restless, that would be one thing... but obviously Susebron wasn't getting restless, so why would the priests feel the need to push for an heir at that point?

Just my thoughts.
Flaamwing

P.S. Mr. Sanderson asked about Lightsong's humor, I thought it was fairly well done and wouldn't want it changed.  I did particularly like the comment about having his priests through stones, as it would be less painful than having to talk to him  :P

Reaves

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #687 on: June 24, 2008, 09:11:33 PM »
One question:
Is the Manywar supposed to be analogous to our own World Wars? That was the first thing i thought of...
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belle_epoque

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #688 on: July 02, 2008, 11:06:41 AM »
So I read Warbreaker last night, and -of course- I really enjoyed it.

My only major criticism is that I found the ending a bit lacking, not in the sense that there was any important information missing, but rather that there was a rather forced attempt to fill in quite a few plot gaps very abruptly. I love the element of surprise in Sanderson's books, but I think that the amount of things explained in the last few chapters worked against him a bit. Instead of leaving the tale feeling satisfied, I finished the book thinking, "Ok?"

I think a lot of my frustration involved the backstory of the Five Scholars. So Vasher's one of them. Ok. Oh, and he started--and brought an end to-- the Manywar. Ok. And then he disappeared--and came back hundreds of years later to save the Idris. And did I mention he's a Returned and the creator of stone armies and a world-famous French pastry chef? Maybe it's just me...

I also thought Susebron got off a little easy. I was expecting a bit more self-sacrifice (or something) to overcome the threat of war than the (in my opinion) rather simplistic solution of just awakening some stone henchmen to do it for them.

As much as I griped about the ending, I did enjoy the book immensely. Sanderson is always one of my go-to authors when people ask me for recommendations.

nonsequitor

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #689 on: July 07, 2008, 02:41:34 AM »
I also felt the climax of the story was rushed.  Vasher's revelation to Susebron and the conclusion of the war were only a few paragraphs apart with a weak excuse about stone men with human bones.  Ok, so the human bones inside the stone bodies make the warriors easier to animate, but how did they get the bones inside the statues in the first place, there was no indication of the technology necessary for concrete or wiring together skeletons to put in molds.  That and the food fetish for the man without a tongue seemed contrived.  Also if the returned shape their bodies in their own image, wouldn't Susebron have been able to grow his own tongue?

I really enjoyed the story, however I didn't really get a good grasp on what biochroma was until the lesson Vasher gives near the end of the story.  One of the things that doesn't sit right with me is the nature of the BioChroma economy, the author portrays the accumulation of BioChroma as a sort of greed, yet the priests and returned "gods" turned out to be the good guys, well not the bad guys.  Maybe if giving your breath, as a living person, not returned, only made you a drab for a while, something that replenishes naturally.  People who give breath to their gods can be seen in a better light, though its not so dramatic a faith as giving your one and only breath of BioChroma to your gods.  This would allow people to have naturally stronger auras than others and possibly regain breath faster if used and lost.  I guess I would have liked more information earlier maybe from Vasher's internal monologue similar to his explanation of awakening during the prison break.  Otherwise a religion asking that sort of sacrifice from its followers still seems evil.

Oh, last but not least, working the words positive, negative, and absolute value into a sentence to show a character "knows math" was lame. While that sentence may have had some philosophical value, using modern mathematical notation for something like that seems like the wrong way to do it.  I groaned when I read that, maybe substituting "magnitude" or "intensity" for "absolute value" will have the effect you're looking for.

I hate only writing about the negative parts of my experience with this novel, I really enjoyed reading it, and its also cool to be able to provide feedback on a work in progress.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 09:14:31 AM by nonsequitor »