Author Topic: Warbreaker: Free Ebook  (Read 172743 times)

Pterath

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 42
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #300 on: January 05, 2007, 04:11:02 PM »
I think it was a way to show a character trait as well but there is so much more that could be done especially since he kept his dead critters.  I mean it was heinous enough that he tortured them, but there is potential.  Plus, he has had to keep his hands to himself with Vivenna thus far if they re-capture her imagine what he could do or try to do. And now Peprin is dead and still in their hands.  I wonder how expensive or easy it is to get someone to create a lifeless?

Quote
Something that's been playing at my mind for a bit is why does he automatically assume she ran away?  He knew that Vasher was watching her, and the best way for your enemy's plans to go down the drain (or at least have a major set-back) is to take away their best weapon.  What does he have going on that he thinks would make her run away?

In that scene Denth is jumping to conclusions not only about her running away but about her hearing the command codes.  In one he is right and one part wrong.  But If my unwitting hostage departed with no evidence or by your leave about it.  I think I'd be in a small panic and not thinking clearly.  Making those leaps whether right or wrong are well within human emotion and don't necessarily have to have clear thinking behind them. 

Kel

dreamking47

  • Level 5
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #301 on: January 05, 2007, 08:08:26 PM »
I'm also still trying to figure out why they tortured the parrot...that was just so wrong. :o

I think that was mostly to show a character trait.  If you think about it the monkey was also tortured, so my thought has always been just that it's something he does... he gets bored with a pet so he tortures them.

Oh, I agree -- I wasn't seriously wondering, just making fun of my own constant questioning and Vivenna's naivetĂ©.  It was a surprise.  Tonk Fah always had a certain bloodthirstiness about him, though, as the line in my signature indicates. 

MattD
"It had blood in it.  That makes it a good metaphor." -- Tonk Fah, in EUOL's Warbreaker

amyface

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 35
  • Fell Points: 0
  • coolbeans!
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #302 on: January 06, 2007, 12:30:05 AM »
I thought the torturing of the animals was to try to get peprin to talk. I think I might give in to animals being tortured quicker than torture to myself... maybe not... I hope to never find out.

I don't think he would use them as lifeless after they had been tortured... wouldn't he want corpses in good shape for that?

It still bugs me that peprin died. I liked him.    >:(
Dude, no no really, DUDE!

Pterath

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 42
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #303 on: January 06, 2007, 01:55:34 AM »
I was just suggesting that they use them as lifeless out of convenience.  Vile as that is I understand fully Vivenna's repulsion to the concept of the lifeless.  Of course, it makes me sick to see a little beastie that has been hit by a car, I couldn't imagine doing it purposefully as Tonk Fah did.  Gah! Bleh!

On to Chapter 40, I have to admit Siri was quite brave in playing her cards the way she did with the High Priest, Tridees.  That was a real chance to take and could still have serious repercussions.

Kel

dawncawley

  • Level 11
  • *
  • Posts: 462
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #304 on: January 06, 2007, 06:53:51 PM »
I agree with you on that point Pterath. I think that she made a bold move, and it really could go either way for her, so in that respect it was also a risky move. I personally think that it was better than doing nothing, and just pretending that things were not ever going to come to that point. There are only so many months that you can get away with the whole charade in the bedroom with nothing to show for it though, so in this I am hoping that it doesn't backfire on her, at least not too much. I don't expect her to get it right the first time, court intrigue that is, but it would be nice if it didn't get her killed. ;)

Master Bombadil

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 24
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Ghost King of Saia
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #305 on: January 07, 2007, 06:46:04 AM »
I have just discovered Warbreaker a few days ago and have acquired an obsession for it.  Does it go away?  I'm not sure whether I want it to.

A few ideas/points:

If a war begins, Susebron's Breaths could give him enough power to put a stop to it (I think he's an Awakener not a Returned) if he still had his tongue.  One of the Returned could sacrifice themselves to heal him; perhaps this would be a heroic second death to match Lightsong's first?  We all know Brandon's habit of killing one main character.

Vivenna's Breaths can't be what Denth is after because he refused to accept in chapter 13.

I did not think Vivenna's escape from Denth and his cronies was very plausible, so I though of another way it could have happened: Tonk Fah and Denth could notice the cuts on her wrist and AFTER they surprise her in the basement, and them realize that she had been kidnapped; they also realize that Peprin's body would be difficult to explain and that they have just missed an opportunity to increase her trust and instead revealed themselves.  Perhaps one of them had realized earlier that Vivenna might not have left willingly and had opposed torturing Peprin.  Then they say 'i told you so' and an argument begins.  This would give Vivenna plenty of time to order Clod to attack and flee in the confusion.

Pterath: what you think Denth would WANT Peprin as a Lifeless?  They only have the skills they had in life, which is not much in Peprin's case.

We don't know that the person who followed Vasher into Mercystar's palace hid his BioCroma; he may not have had any.

I think that Blushweaver is doing what she thinks is best for the country, and is not Denth's employer.

I keep worrying that Susebron's priests can overhear Vivenna and know what she's teaching Susebron even though she whispers but are pretending they don't.  Am I being paranoid?

Wouldn't Bluefingers owe Vivenna a favor for getting his countrywomen promoted?  He seems very intent on getting them good positions, and would likely be more willing to help Vivenna after she ordered her servants switched.
I am not bragging.  I am understating.

firstRainbowRose

  • Level 18
  • *
  • Posts: 867
  • Fell Points: 1
  • So pretty!
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #306 on: January 07, 2007, 07:52:06 AM »
I think that Bluefingers will be owing Siri for her getting his country women in place, but I also think that was the point behind that move.

I think the reason that Denth was using Vivenna was exactly the reason we see... she was great way to get a war started.  The most they ever used her for was showing off the royal locks, and promote the fighting in the city.

The thing I want to see more about (and almost seems to have been dropped, which seems slightly ooc for Lightsong) is the past that his priest knows... I mean, after being so obsessed about it, you think he'd be bugging him more to get information, and using his obvious cunning to get him to have something slip.
"The custom of royalty in referring to oneself is to naturally employ the royal 'we'.  We are very happy, we are very sad, we are bored and suffer from ennui.  For a royal prince there's no such word as 'me', It's always 'we'.  So rightfully I should be two or three, don't you agree?"

Pterath

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 42
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #307 on: January 07, 2007, 03:28:29 PM »
As for Peprin as lifeless... he was a good tracker/hunter which eludes to the fact that he could be stealthy when he needed to be.  Those skills could be used or exploited if need be. Or he could even be used as a diversion.  Socially, he was a misfit but he could still serve a purpose, lifeless aren't exactly social so this does not matter.  You don't have to be a hulk like Clod to be useful. Colors, they could even sell him into the lifeless armies.   Not that I find it necessary to do any of this but it does present other options which is all I was really suggesting.  But seeing it seems to be an expensive possibility it makes it all that much more unlikely.  Though the cost of  war can be costly it doesn't rule this out completely as a possibility.  But with only approximately 10 more chapters til the end well time is not going to probably allow for such. 

Denth may not want to possess the breaths but that does not mean he does not want to exploit the opportunity to get her to use them to his advantage.  He has been trying to get her to use the abilities of an awakener throughout the book saying that it would be good for their group to have a strong awakener.  He has been manipulating her all the while.  The attack in the slums was too well orchestrated for them to not have had insider information.  Again it eludes to Denth or someone of the Mercs reporting to the guard or even possibly Blushweaver, so that Vivenna would be scared witless and be forced to try and use what she has.  She fails and is now slowly accepting the fact that she will have to just to survive. 

I am not positive of Blushweaver's part with being Denth's employer but it does make alot of other things make sense when we mover her into that position.  Granted with that being said I am probably completely wrong and Brandon will smack us with one of his plot twists that we could not possibly have seen coming.

I like the fact that everything is not perfect in her escape.  We have already discussed that something needs to happen with her hearing the codes a few pages back.

I wouldn't doubt that the person sent to follow Vasher could have been without breath by choice or not but I have a sneaking suspicion that we will find Blushweaver at the heart of this as well.  It was the perfect way to insure Mercystar's cooperation in giving her the lifeless codes especailly after Light song gets involved.  And is probably why she is so exaperated with Lightsong's continued obsession with the tunnels and the problem.   He might find her out.

As for Lightsong's wanting to know who he was I think he is acting on it, instead of thinking about it, so much.  He is using his instincts to try and solve the puzzle he has discovered and his dreams are becoming more vivid and telling, perhaps because of it?

Bluefinger's could not help but be indebted to Siri through her ploy, and it will also give her a more loyalty from him and the women.  She would have help to get Susebron out of the palace. 

Make me wonder of there are tunnels leading to the GodKing's palace.  Seems completely likely.  And makes me ask: Where is Vasher now?

Kel

dreamking47

  • Level 5
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #308 on: January 07, 2007, 04:07:19 PM »
To speculate on the identity of the person who followed Vasher: my first guess would be Llarimar, because he seemed unusually nervous during Lightsong's investigations, trying to push Lightsong back into his usual frivolous Godly activities.  It's not much, but it's the only hint I've noticed so far.

This doesn't mean BTW that I think Llarimar was betraying Lightsong -- Llarimar could have been acting in what he perceived as Lightsong's best interests.  It's also occured to me that the man-who-Lightsong-was and Llarimar could have made some plan before Lightsong's death, one of those "you had to not know who you were"-type plans.  We shall see...

MattD
« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 10:35:53 PM by dreamking47 »
"It had blood in it.  That makes it a good metaphor." -- Tonk Fah, in EUOL's Warbreaker

Master Bombadil

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 24
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Ghost King of Saia
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #309 on: January 07, 2007, 08:16:10 PM »
I don't think it's OOC for Lightsong to stop pestering Llahrimar about his past.  He's distracted by his investigation of the murder and realizes that pestering Llahrimar will not help uncover his past; the main reason he asked about his past before was because he wanted to complain about not knowing.  Now he is discovering some things on his own and is excited about his investigation.

As for Blushweaver...SOMETHING has to be going on with her, otherwise Brandon has wasted a lot of pages.  I'm fairly sure she was lying when she claimed that she refused the tunnel connection to her palace because she didn't want noise; she may have had the connection built, but I think it's more likely she refused out of paranoia.  She also may have had something to do with following Vasher, but I doubt she did it herself, because it just doesn't seem in character for her to do it herself, not to mention how conspicuous her aura would be.  She'd kill herself if she tried to hide it in something.

Now, here's another possibility: what if the person who killed the servant was a priest who left the tunnel after Vasher entered, and killed the servant because he was seen.  I know it's a little far-fetched, but...I don't like priests much.  How loyal are they to their gods, anyway?  It seems they are religiously devoted, even if they are plotting against their own gods.
I am not bragging.  I am understating.

Tjaeden

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 45
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #310 on: January 09, 2007, 09:39:17 PM »
I wish I didn’t have to read 21 pages of a thread to finally be able to post my thoughts and comments.  I just didn’t want anyone saying, “Yeah, we covered that on page 10.”  (LOL, I saw that a few pages back.)  Anyway, I hope to make more constructive comments about upcoming chapters, rather than this insubstantial review-like post.

Scoot & Lightsong
     Tremendously awesome characters, Scoots byplay with Lightsong makes the god’s actions, emotions and questioning seem real.  And that holds up the character in later chapters, making his actions seem normal.  (Which Lightsong would hate!)  But I really laughed out loud with the idea of a God picking on his High Priest.  I think a lot of people can understand that “stuffiness” of clergy, and enjoy seeing people’s noses get tweaked.
     I think Lightsong should keep the war painting he liked so much.  If he were caught staring at it by his priests, or if he forced himself to ponder it more later, then his interest in his past life would be more real.  Also, it’s just another time to allow Scoot to worry – maybe cluing the reader in on his and Lightsong’s pre-Returned relationship (this mystery is probably killing me the most).  I do not think Scoot (I'm sticking with that name, 'cause, hey, a God named him) is betraying Lightsong.  Rather, he is looking out for him, so he doesn't endager himself in discovering what he is not supposed to.

Susebron
     If he cannot speak, how does he say the incantation to give up his breath?  Is he the 1st God King to have his tongue cut out?  It would seem that men of Tridees’ nature would have controlled every God-King since Peacegiver. 

Breaths.
     I absolutely detest the term “BioChroma.”  The double capitalization makes it seem like some company from the Shadowrun novels (near future sci-fi/fantasy).  That just links it too strongly to a science, rather than a magic system.  Animating the dead using “souls” screams some kind of Divine Magic.  If you wanted to temper this with the “ichor-alcohol” (I love the alchemy references) and perfect-pitch/hue ideas, I don’t think it works.
   The beautiful colors, and the mysticism attached to it is lost every time that phrase is mentioned.  Why would they use Greek words to say "Life Colors"?  "Breath" is far more simple, elegant, and magical.  However, I'm not saying it should be called, Breath - just that almost anything is better than BC.

Siri.
     She is instantly a likeable character.  Real and down to earth – identifiable.  However, she never reacts to the term, “Vessel.”  I think she would constantly try to rebuff the term – even after being intimidated by the Court, Tridees, and the 1st few nights with the God King.  I think Siri is smart enough to understand that she is separate from the Court. 
     She has defiance in her, but she loses a lot those 1st weeks in the Court.  When she suddenly gets it back, she still lets people call her, “Vessel” – even Bluefingers!  If the term is a religious reference (obviously because she is important for only one thing), then why is a Pahn-Kal using it?  Even when they are co-conspirators? 
     Agreeing with Dreamking47 – how come Siri never wonder’s about Susebron’s mother?

Vivena.
   Although I love her, and her parts, were these all ideas from Mistborn that you didn’t get around too?  I can get behind her idea to rescue her sister – but then it all stops.  So there is a war coming? All of a sudden, its time to topple another city-empire.  Vivena has all but said they she has given up on Siri.  No effort has been made by her to contact her sister.  Granted, the mercs may have done something to interfere (while seemingly helping), but Vivena could have at least tried something.
   Why is she so concerned with disrupting a “war-effort”?  An army of zombies!  They have to fight an army of zombies!  She should be focused on disabling, stealing, or something towards that end.  If a god just told his 10,000 zombies to go and destroy Idris, they might not succeed, but they would cause SERIOUS damage.  Enough so that the next 10,000 zombies, or even real troops, could just walk in.  Unless, of course, the reader is supposed to believe that the Idrian army is pathetically weak.
     I agree with Dreamking47 about Vivena’s constant piousness.  She keeps putting herself in places where she questions her ability to judge people, and place herself above them.  While these are admirable qualities, they should not be in a princess.  Vivena is constantly being shown as more naĂŻve than Siri – which bothers me on a few occasions.  I hope that when the Idrian finally stole her clothes, maybe she would learn some sense.


The Mercs.
     These guys are great.  And even I didn’t see it coming, I was in Vivena’s seat the whole time.  I felt her shock and confusion – well done!  I hope they stick around, only to cause more problems.  If Vashar kills them too easy, I will be disappointed.

Pacing
   I kind of like the random quality of the viewpoints.  Cliffhangers abound all over, and leaving one chapter not knowing if the story finishes in the next is a great way to keep us hooked.  However, MORE VASHAR!  And his sword is probably my favorite character so far.  'I'm better than a shirt' - that brought tears to my eyes!
     As always, the Sanderson slide starts a little slow with a nice grab, but builds exponential momentum towards the end.  Once you pass the ½ way point in one of his book, you have to stay up all night to finish it!


Once I dreamt of death /
now it dreams of me,
And only rats and rotting flesh /
can hear my silent plea...

dreamking47

  • Level 5
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #311 on: January 09, 2007, 11:08:17 PM »
I never really noticed the term "BioChroma" one way or the other although it's a good point, as an item of language it does stand out a bit.  It has sometimes felt like the magic system is really two or three ideas for magic systems crammed together -- particularly with the person/object distinction EUOL mentioned in his last post.  I agree, we know enough about the system that it does start to feel like a science rather than magic, yet not so much that we can really understand it.  (Not that this is any different from the real world!)  But we're not at the end of the book yet, either.

Honestly, I'm not a magic system person -- I prefer my magic to be rare, dramatic and personal (I like the ability of the Returned Gods to grant a single miracle) -- so as long as I don't notice any glaring inconsistencies I tend to just nod my head and keep reading during the bits that focus on the system.  I'm in it more for the story and the characters.

MattD
« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 05:57:21 AM by dreamking47 »
"It had blood in it.  That makes it a good metaphor." -- Tonk Fah, in EUOL's Warbreaker

amyface

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 35
  • Fell Points: 0
  • coolbeans!
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #312 on: January 10, 2007, 04:20:48 AM »
In response to Tjaeden...

I really don't like the term Biochroma either. This may be because the first time I read it I thought it said Biochemistry or something like that, which is my major and that made me think of school and then homework that I was avoiding by reading the first 30 chapters or so at once and I didn't like that. It did sound too technical to me for a fantasy/non-future type of book...

We've discussed the tongue problem a bit. I think clerifications will be made later about how he will transfer the breath since I believe Siri has also wondered this... I'm just waiting to see.

I want more Vasher as well!! I'm not sure why I like him and his sword...

I had assumed the name Vessel was a normal term for someone who is needed to have a baby... I didn't like the term but figured she would have been expected to be called that for some reason...

I agree with scoot not betraying lightsong... I think he would be nicer if he wanted to betray lightsong.

...just some thoughts on your thoughts...
Dude, no no really, DUDE!

Master Bombadil

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 24
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Ghost King of Saia
    • View Profile
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #313 on: January 10, 2007, 04:33:39 AM »
I have also wondered about how Susebron is supposed to pass on his Breath.  Since i don't think his priests are stupid enough to make that bad of a mistake, they must know something about BioCroma we don't that allows him to use it without his voice, or maybe they plan on persuading a Returned to sacrifice themselves to heal him.

Speaking of BioCroma, I think it's supposed to sound like a science.  That's the impression I have had since the first chapter, when Vasher was thinking of Hallandren as 'the center of BioCromatic research.'  Brandon's magical systems usually are rather scientific, which is something I personally like.  There are not enough well-designed scientific magical systems in fantasy, and too much hand-waving and weird words with no further explanation than 'they're magic.'

As for Vivenna, I think Brandon's planned storyline requires Vivenna to be in T'Telir and making trouble for reasons not revealed until later.  She is also supposed to be moralistic and somewhat naive: half of what's been written about her so far has been about how religious and sheltered she has been.  Siri was right when she decided that Vivenna would not have been able to deal with the shock of marrying Susebron.

I love the mercs to.  Every book needs at least one disaster like that.  And I wouldn't worry about Vasher having an easy time beating Denth...
I am not bragging.  I am understating.

EUOL

  • Moderator
  • Level 58
  • *
  • Posts: 4708
  • Fell Points: 33
  • Mr. Prolific [tm]
    • View Profile
    • Brandon Sanderson dot com
Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #314 on: January 10, 2007, 08:35:36 AM »
Hum...  You make good points (all of you.)

I've been tempted to pull back a little bit on the BioChroma part of the terminology.  I like it a lot, but only when used in the proper place.  I think it might be too techinical for the average person to use.  There are places it belongs.  We shall see what you think after future chapters.

Vessel needs to be dealt with.  In my mind of minds, it was the term the priests of the God King used for the person who would bear their next ruler.  Never explained, though.  And Siri WOULD probably think it odd.

New chapter is here:  Chapter Forty One
http://www.BrandonSanderson.com

"Technically, I don't even have a brain."--Fellfrosch