Author Topic: Warbreaker: Free Ebook  (Read 182059 times)

firstRainbowRose

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #255 on: December 24, 2006, 09:22:54 AM »
Personally, I'm not seeing a kid until the very end... if it's mentioned at all in the book.  (I'm kind of glad about the lack of super-personal time.  It's letting us readers get to know their love... and prove you can be in love without that.)

And I had never thought of how Susebron's death would effect the Iridescent Colors until you're post... *thinks*
"The custom of royalty in referring to oneself is to naturally employ the royal 'we'. We are very happy, we are very sad, we are bored and suffer from ennui. For a royal prince there's no such word as 'me', It's always 'we'. So rightfully I should be two or three, don't you agree?"

DragonFly

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #256 on: December 24, 2006, 12:22:50 PM »
How's this for some  far-out speculation: Lightsong uses his breath to heal Susebron's tongueless state, and Susebron weighs in on the Idrian side of the war.   :)
Work is like fertilizer in that I'm very glad it exists--I just don't ever want to get stuck in it
(Lightsong in Warbreaker)

dreamking47

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #257 on: December 24, 2006, 04:27:29 PM »
How's this for some  far-out speculation: Lightsong uses his breath to heal Susebron's tongueless state, and Susebron weighs in on the Idrian side of the war.   :)

If you take a look at page 11 of this thread, you'll see user joevans3 had the same thought, which we kicked the tires on a bit.

I did notice in the recent chapter how it was casually mentioned that Susebron has the command codes for the Lifeless armies (although I'd wonder whether the priests would really tell him).

As far as the Denth/Vivenna question...it certainly would be a little more dramatic if Denth is not aware that Vivenna knows the command code for Clod.  However, it's also believable to me that in the obvious chaos and panic of their search for Vivenna, they simply wouldn't think to change the code, especially given Vivenna's "I want nothing to do with them" attitude toward the Lifeless.  If Vivenna can covertly overhear the command code without it feeling forced or contrived, so much then the better; but it is not to my tastes necessary.  The nice thing about the idea of Vivenna covertly overhearing something is that some hints could be dropped at the same time about other mysteries -- who is Clod, why is Jewels so connected to him, etc. -- and in that way camouflage the importance of Vivenna hearing the command code.

MattD
"It had blood in it.  That makes it a good metaphor." -- Tonk Fah, in EUOL's Warbreaker

dawncawley

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #258 on: December 24, 2006, 06:06:17 PM »
I don't think that anyone noticed when Jewels used the command code in front of Vivenna for the very reason that dreamking 47 just posted, she was so opposed to their use that they probably couldn't ever imagine a time when she would use them, or Clod specifically. I really don't think that whole section needs to be rewritten, maybe just a tweak or two to make it flow a little bit better. Nothing specific that I can think of right now, sorry about that. I thought that it went pretty well myself.

Pterath

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #259 on: December 24, 2006, 10:48:45 PM »
The thing is not much more than a page had passed after Vivenna asked Denth to teach her how to use her breath, before Jewels used the command on Clod.

Quote
She (Vivenna) nodded.  “Teach me.”
   To the side Jewels got out a small pump and stuck a small hose into Clod’s shoulder, into a little clasp that had apparently been designed for the purpose.  She began to pump the Ichor-alcohol into the veins, moving the pump very slowly, probably in order to keep from bursting the veins.
   “Well,” Denth said, “there are a lot of commands.  However, if you want to bring a rope to life--like that one you tried to use back in the alleyway--a good Commmnad is ‘hold things.’  Speak it with a clear voice, willing your Breath to act.  (pg. 200-201 Warbreaker part 3)

Vivenna is actively thinking about using her breath and has committed herself, even though she doesn't have much to go on; however, as I said before, Denth gave her a very important clue. *see above quote*  When I think of Vivenna she is not a girl that does things halfway, not once she decides she is going to do something.  Then she figures out how to use her breath successfully and the intelligent woman that she is applies it.

EUOL

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #260 on: December 27, 2006, 11:24:01 PM »
All right, back to Vivenna:

New chapter: 
Chapter Thirty Nine

I wonder, is this turn of events (in the last few chapters) with Vivenna too clichéd?  I've seen some things like this occasionally in books, but I went ahead and did it anyway because it really seemed to fit what I wanted for her character.
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Pterath

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #261 on: December 28, 2006, 01:15:00 AM »
EUOL,

Do you mean the fact that everything was going along swimmingly and then taking everything away and throwing her into dispair; thus, forcing her to have to find a new way to handle her agenda and forcing her to be self-sufficient? 

It is a bit of a device, but that learning curve would have to come in from somewhere for her to grow as a character.  Which I think needs to happen (the growth as a character), because she is the one character that I've connected with the least. 

Kel

firstRainbowRose

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #262 on: December 28, 2006, 01:39:47 AM »
I think it's a great idea.  It would have been too clichéd if she were to suddenly have a perfect understanding of breaths, and were run into someone who helped her, and she was compleatly fine.  But where she's compleatly devistated, and can't even do some of the things she's done since birth because of the shock.  Nah, I think it's fine...
"The custom of royalty in referring to oneself is to naturally employ the royal 'we'. We are very happy, we are very sad, we are bored and suffer from ennui. For a royal prince there's no such word as 'me', It's always 'we'. So rightfully I should be two or three, don't you agree?"

amyface

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #263 on: December 28, 2006, 03:27:56 AM »
First, I got the impression that Lightsong was Idrian. Maybe he was one of them in the city or something, but they aren't all in the slums right? I mean, there are Idrians in the normal society... That would explain why he doesn't believe that he is devine and why he doesn't care for being a god very much...?

I think Vivena being betrayed was a good twist because it raises the question of whether or not Vasher is bad, which I personally never wanted him to be. I'm not sure why I figured he was a good guy all along but I liked him. I still don't get why Vasher needed to kidnap her though because she wasn't really doing anything in halendren anyway, nobody was listening to her. He just wanted her breath?
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Pterath

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #264 on: December 28, 2006, 04:13:04 AM »
Lightsong an Idrian..... hmmm possibly. So then his visions/dreams/flashes of memory are foretelling what is to come?

Well, Vasher could find/steal/buy breaths just about anywhere in Hallendren to kidnap Vivenna for the soul purpose of stealing her breath is a bit thin.  Especially, since he can acquire it with ease had he wanted too.  But he is not the type to do things that are easy.  In chapter one he got himself arrested to get the breath of the man, Pahn, and kill him.  Seems there was more to that than we currently know.  But again my point is he raised the difficulty level for the want of breath alone... I don't think so.  There is more to him than that.

Denth hates him and not for just killing his friend and perhaps Denth/Vivenna's plans are working against Vasher's he takes her out of the picture all that much easier for him.  Not that he was successful, but that's just foreshadowing for you.  There is so much more that can happen for good or ill.

Though, Vasher gives off mixed vibes on the good or bad thing.  Doing the right thing for all the wrong reasons, perhaps?  Does he have to be good or bad?   I mean at first I was all ready to hate Susebron and you cannot help but feel compassion for the man... oops God King.  Not something I had anticipated - loved that twist.

firstRainbowRose

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #265 on: December 28, 2006, 05:01:59 AM »
I had wondered about Lightsong being an Idrian myself, but was thinking that it wouldn't work because they let their returned die.  However, for him to have been in the slums, that makes a lot of sense.  It explains how he was found, and like you said amyface why he hates the Iridescent tones.

I was just re-reading through the chapter where she was betrayed, and I noticed that this comment is there:

Quote
He couldn’t have died from sickness, she (Vivenna) realized.  Or from old age.  Austre!

Does that mean when someone has reached the third heightening or higher they become immortal themselves and aren't susceptible to everyday illnesses?
"The custom of royalty in referring to oneself is to naturally employ the royal 'we'. We are very happy, we are very sad, we are bored and suffer from ennui. For a royal prince there's no such word as 'me', It's always 'we'. So rightfully I should be two or three, don't you agree?"

dreamking47

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #266 on: December 28, 2006, 06:28:04 PM »
I wonder, is this turn of events (in the last few chapters) with Vivenna too clichéd?  I've seen some things like this occasionally in books, but I went ahead and did it anyway because it really seemed to fit what I wanted for her character.

Do you mean Vivenna's general riches-to-rags transformation, her crisis of faith, and/or the betrayal?

I think that fantasy is always a high wire act of balancing archetypes without falling into clichés.  If you have a character who is a Princess and you want her to change and grow, well, you can send her to another country with different customs (check), and/or either she moves upward in social station and becomes a Queen (like Siri) or she has to fall down the social ladder somewhat (like Vivenna).  I don't think any of those are clichés: they're all at their heart primal situations that many readers will be familiar with from their own lives.  Likewise with matters of trust and betrayal, likewise with questions of certainty and faith.  Clichés come in more with the details of those situations and how your characters deal with them.  The Siri/Susebron chapters have actually felt more in danger of falling into cliché than the Vivenna chapters to me so far, but I can't really judge either until I see how the story ends.

MattD

P.S. One more small continuity thing: in chapter 38, Lightsong says that the Lifeless squirrel Vasher used in Mercystar's dwelling has had its blood replaced with ichor-alcohol; this contradicts what was said in chapter 24, where it is said "it had blood instead of ichor alcohol."
« Last Edit: December 28, 2006, 06:46:40 PM by dreamking47 »
"It had blood in it.  That makes it a good metaphor." -- Tonk Fah, in EUOL's Warbreaker

Pterath

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #267 on: December 28, 2006, 07:06:46 PM »
The breaths extend life and health so I am thinking it means that Lemks was poisoned, likely very slowly to torture him by Denth and his cronies.  Remember what he said that sounded a bit like lunacy, because he did not realize it was Vivenna speaking to him at their first meeting.
Quote
“Can’t fool me,” the old man (Lemks) whispered, eyes still unfocused.  “Your torture is nothing to me.  I won’t give it up.  Not to you.”
He would not give up his breath not to just anyone.  Only, once he realized it was Vivenna there he eventually gave it to her.

Kel

firstRainbowRose

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #268 on: December 28, 2006, 11:34:43 PM »
It now makes sense that those comments, which at the time just seemed crazy, would actually be something useful.

I still feel like there's something about that comment.  If it just improve heath and prolong life, then she wouldn't have thought what she did.  Maybe I'm just crazy...
"The custom of royalty in referring to oneself is to naturally employ the royal 'we'. We are very happy, we are very sad, we are bored and suffer from ennui. For a royal prince there's no such word as 'me', It's always 'we'. So rightfully I should be two or three, don't you agree?"

Pterath

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Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« Reply #269 on: December 29, 2006, 03:21:29 PM »
Though had Lemks been given time there is a possibility(with no further tampering) he might have recovered but because he gave up his breaths his death was instantaneous.  Had he not given up his breath there is a chance he could have survived.  So, Vivenna thinking that is not so surprising.  I think she is realizing that fact, maybe not that he was poisoned, specifically, but she has to see that Lemks did not only give up his breath but his life as well when he gave them to her. 

That is what I read in the impact of that statement.  She is piecing together the betrayal and is beginning to see how deep it really goes.  That it began long before she ever arrived.  Denth confirms this. They even warned her over and over never trust a mercenary but she trusted that because they were paid that they would do as she bade.  Lemks couldn't make bad choices (in her opinion he was to be trusted) and she deferred to them.  She was desperate for help and took what she could her naivete cost her greatly in depending upon them. 

Now, she's hit is rock bottom, there is no where to go but up, right?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2006, 12:35:00 AM by Pterath »