cool covers or remixes

[fuzzyoctopus]

I think some companies support this- that's why there are free versions of things like Maya.

*amused look*

[EUOL]

Launch requires you to watch adds.  So it's not actually free.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Ok, Spriggan I have to say this, and if you didn't aim this comment at me then I apologize in advance and will chalk it up to the internet sometimes being a poor communication medium at times.

It is intresting to see you in a furvor over this shoplifting thing, here you are trying to defend your illegal activites by saying it's not that bad.

Dont assume that because I dont agree with you in this case that I am a lawbreaker and illegally downloading music. Im not. I never have. I do see music downloading as an exercise in free speech and civil disobedience and have considered it at times but I have never, I repeat never illegally downloaded one song. So dont moralize and call me a theif.

[Spriggan]

I wasn't, I was directing that to people in the conversatoin that openly admited downloading illegal files then tried to defend their actions as just.

I didn't resond to your comment on parolies because, 1) you're right, and 2) that wasn't what I was trying to talk about.  see my post where I reply to SE's commment on speeding

oh, and Jeffe, theft isn't civil disobedience.  If you want to protest a law you don't walk up and steal someones wallet.  And the laws will never change makeing what everyone is doing legal for one reason.  It wont stop with music, people will move from music to moives to software and the next thing you know cars, breaking into peoples houses ect.  Just remember there's allwayse a consequence to your actions, and changeing the law so theft becomes legal will be detremental to socity.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Theft can indeed be civil disobedience, which is why people like Robin Hood, and Jesse James become heros instead of villians. Our founding fathers themselves started a war by stealing tea, and symbolically pouring it into Boston Harbor. (Granted thats a little more complicated but...)

[Entsuropi]

Just thought i'd mention that robin hood, in one of the earlier versions of the tales, would stop travellers, give them a meal, and then charged them the entire contents of their purse. In other words, a highway brigand.

Plus, his burial spot, or something said to be, is about 4 miles from where i live.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Yeah and in other early ones he would only do it to Clergy (who were pretty wealthy back then)

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I don't think I have much more to contribute, except to say that speeding is, indeed a crime. There is a law that states there is a limit to how fast you can go. If you exceed that limit, there is a fine. In no place that I can find is it ever ENFORCED unless you go more than 10 over, but the official law states the limit, and there is always a fine structure in place for "minor speeding" or whatever you want to call it.

So:
breaking law = illegal
speed limit = law
therefore, exceeding speed limit = illegal

So, yeah, the analogy still holds.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Just to muddy the water there can be mitigating speeding circumstances... it is legal to speed as long as you aren't driving recklessly when....
You are passing on the left

Many states also have go with the flow laws that allow someone to speed if they are going with the general flow of traffic.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

contrary to popular belief, though, virginia does NOT have such a law. Though generally driving 70 on I495 is safer than going the proscribed 55, it's still illegal. Though it's one of the rare cases where VA law enforcement is reasonable and doesn't often enforce it.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

North Carolina does have such a law, it was in the Drivers Test Study Guide, many other states have eneacted that law as well.

[EUOL]

I don't think I have much more to contribute, except to say that speeding is, indeed a crime. There is a law that states there is a limit to how fast you can go. If you exceed that limit, there is a fine. In no place that I can find is it ever ENFORCED unless you go more than 10 over, but the official law states the limit, and there is always a fine structure in place for "minor speeding" or whatever you want to call it.

So:
breaking law = illegal
speed limit = law
therefore, exceeding speed limit = illegal

So, yeah, the analogy still holds.

Actually, SE, that's what I was getting at.  It has been explained to me that the laws surrounding speeding (but, I'll admit I'm now lawyer, so I'm out of my depth here) have been worded so that those who speed are not actually breaking the law, but they can still be given a ticket for it.  It's kind of a 'if you want to speed, you have to pay extra' kind of thing.  

Or, at least, that's how decriminalization has been explained to me.  The same holds for parking tickets--it's not actually against the law to break most parking restrictions.  But, for some reason, they can still fine you.  Kind of like how you can be fined for parking in a private-property-owned parking lot without a sticker.  It's just not a legally criminal activity, but the owners have stipulated "We own the land, so we can charge people who park on it.  If they don't have a sticker, we can charge them more."


As for civil disobedience, I would say that stealing can indeed be a form of civil disobedience.  Civil disobedience is simply doing something illegal for what one believes to be a higher moral law.  Breaking the law as a protest.  So, you would have to be doing something illegal for it to count.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. That doesn't mean it's accurate, but it doesn't make sense, and currently I don't believe it. I'd have to see the wording of the law.

... which I just did for Virginia

Operation of any motor vehicle in excess of a maximum speed limit established ... shall be unlawful and constitute a traffic infraction punishable by a fine

-http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-878.2 (a page on Virginia's official government page, showing the "code of Virginia" -- the body of laws)
I don't see how that can possibly be construed to mean that speeding is finable but not "illegal."

Utah's body of laws is a heckuva a lot more messed up and hideous. Far as I can tell, what you say may possibly be accurate for Utah, since I can find a section specifying the authority to establish a speed limit, and I can find a section on penalties for exceeding the speed limit, but I can't find any word that states "unlawful" or "illegal." However, that sounds more like mincing words.

and on that note, I can't find those words used in conjunction with murder either. There are some types of homocide which are specfically designated 2nd degree felonies, but the crime of "murder," from my cursory search is not specifically labeled "illegal" or an inarguable term giving it equivelant status. would your friend argue this is not illegal either -- just punishable by a jail term? that doesn't make sense.

Seems to me, if it's prohibited or described as "punishable" in the code of the state, it's illegal. Anything else is pulling a Clintonesque "depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is" sort of semantic bashing that is ultimately meaningless.

[EUOL]

Actually, I'm not drawing this from a 'friend,' I'm taking it from news programs which have been discussing the 'decriminalization' of marijuana.  They almost always use speeding as an example of something that is punishable, but not 'criminal.'

Look up decriminalization on google, and you'll get a billion sites talking about legalizing pot.  

I'm not sure what the difference was, but I always found their arguments very interesting.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

sounds like wordplay to me at best. Relying on people not knowing how the law works more likely.