Author Topic: cool covers or remixes  (Read 9235 times)

JP Dogberry

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Re: cool covers or remixes
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2004, 08:56:01 PM »
May I point out that technically, OC ReMixes are illegal, unless the remixer got the Composer's permission in writing. Thing is, you won't get in trouble for it, since if the game companies started suing, they'd just annoy their fans, and if anything OC promotes them. That said, you're still technically breaking the law.
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Re: cool covers or remixes
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2004, 09:03:53 PM »
Ah, actually, this point--as I understand it--is still in dispute.  There just aren't enough cases to use as references, as the idea of remixing is a newer problem in copyright circles.  Either way, it has been established that it is sometimes legal to use samples of songs, or to remake songs.

This website:

http://www.eff.org/IP/grey_tuesday.php

Has an interesting argument about whether or not the Grey Album actually breaks copyright laws.

Downloading actual copyrighted music has been ruled on as illegal.  Remixing, however, has not.

(Oh, and Fuzzy and SE--please see my specific responses to your quotes two posts back.  JP bumped us onto the next page.)
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fuzzyoctopus

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Re: cool covers or remixes
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2004, 09:20:53 PM »
Quote
However, it is still illegal--and it's the morality of breaking the law that, perhaps, should worry you.


However, it does not.  And I know many people whom it does not worry.  Why do you suppose that is?  

If it were only me, or only people like me, or younger it would be one thing.  Why then, for example, do neither of my strict parents have any issues with downloading music?
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Re: cool covers or remixes
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2004, 10:29:05 PM »
Fuzzy--please clarifiy for me.  Are you arguing that breaking the law is not immoral, or are you simply wondering why you don't feel guilty?  
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fuzzyoctopus

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Re: cool covers or remixes
« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2004, 10:33:40 PM »
Yes.  Why do I and other people not feel guilty about it, when we normally have over-developed guilt glands?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2004, 10:33:56 PM by fuzzyoctopus »
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Re: cool covers or remixes
« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2004, 10:46:37 PM »
Hum.  Well, I don't know if there's anything I can say about breaking the law not being immoral.  It seems fairly clear-cut to me.  

As for your--and many others--lack of guilt, I can offer several explanations.

Perhaps, deep down, you just don't feel that it's illegal.  You don't think the issue has been decided.  Perhaps you see that a good number of people disagree with the law, and think that a government run by the people should listen to what its people want, rather than coming up with random, unpopular laws.

As for your parents, if they're like mine, then it really does come down to the 'faceless crime' idea.  My mother pirates like Blackbeard and doesn't care--no matter how often I explain that it's wrong.  I think, perhaps, we aren't as moral as we think.  If everybody does it, then we think it must be okay--especially if it is a hidden, quiet thing.  

Of course, as soon as the RIAA started suing people, my mother made certain that none of our family used programs that could get us implicated.  That doesn't stop her from having her friends burn CD's for her.

We, as Americans, are kind of an arrogant people.  It defines, in part, who we are.  We don't like people telling us what to do.  So, we take what we want--as long as nobody is looking--and pretend that there are no consequences.  This goes for pirating software too.  

I can't really say why we feel this way.  I feel it too--I have convinced myself not to pirate any more, but there was a time when I had no problem with it.  Yet, I considered myself a very moral person.  How did I rationalize this?  It still confuses me.

No offense intended, Fuzzy.  This is directed at us as a culture, not at you specifically.
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Spriggan

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Re: cool covers or remixes
« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2004, 11:07:49 PM »
I did do some quick looking and from what I can tell the only "major" artist, if you can call them that, that actualy has, in their contract, the right to distrubte there music for free via the net is Phish.

Quote
What I'm saying is that punishment for crimes is just that. Punishment. You do the crime, you do the time. It's a very poor deterrant (There's an $200 fine for speeding on Sydenstricker Rd in my area, that's on TOP of normal speeding fines... the Speed limit is 30, and I'm never below 40, and usually closer to 50. It's done little to disuade me from speeding) and an even poorer re-educator.


That's true SE, but I think if the law was more enforced then it would deture more people.  With your example, would you be going 40+ in the 30 area if there were several cops along the road? if there was the threat of being caught and fined I think most people wouldn't speed on that road.  It's the same with the internet.  If people knew there was a good chance of getting caught and arrested/fined for downloading illegal files, I don't think we'd be haveing most of this conversation.  Now you can argure there are better things for the cops to do then sit on the road setting speed traps, or tracking internet downloads.  But that's a different argument.

And let me propose this to Fuzzy and others, what about software?  Alot, but not all, of companies do feel it when you steal a game or a program like flash.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2004, 11:08:11 PM by Spriggan »
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Re: cool covers or remixes
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2004, 12:57:01 AM »
What about TMBG? They always have free mp3's on tmbg.com, as well as music videos, and streaming music.
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fuzzyoctopus

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Re: cool covers or remixes
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2004, 01:08:13 AM »
Quote

Perhaps, deep down, you just don't feel that it's illegal.  You don't think the issue has been decided.  Perhaps you see that a good number of people disagree with the law, and think that a government run by the people should listen to what its people want, rather than coming up with random, unpopular laws.


*nod*  Yes, that sounds right.  Makes a lot of sense.   I really do think that eventually the laws will change.

And Sprig- I don't think I have any pirated software.
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Re: cool covers or remixes
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2004, 01:18:55 AM »
sorry, I ment more how do you feel about downloading software vs music?
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Re: cool covers or remixes
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2004, 01:39:31 AM »
As an author, however, I have to wonder about these things.  If it became popular to download illegal copies of books, how would it affect me?  If I can't sell enough copies, then I won't be able to support myself as a writer.  That means that I won't be able to write for a living, and won't be able to produce more books for people to read.  In essence, my fans would drive me out of business.

I know, it's not likely--books are a very different medium than music.  Perhaps people once made the same argument against libraries.  However, it is still something I wonder about.
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fuzzyoctopus

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Re: cool covers or remixes
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2004, 03:01:53 AM »
I think also with books, (at least for people like me) even ebooks- free or purchased- could never take the place of real hardback books.  I just *need* to have the book.  And I prefer hardback if I can get it; just the feeling of it in my hands.  With music, it all plays in my CD player/computer the same.

And as for music vs. software... I guess I look at pirated software as a little more of a bad thing.  But software does cost a lot of money, so sometimes I think it's more necessary whereas pirating music is never necessary.  

Look at Maya, the software my husband uses to do his 3D modeling.  $2,000 for the software.  That's an insane amount of money for some teenager to pay if he wants to teach himself to use it.  The cost is so unbelievable prohibitive sometimes that I don't view it as just.

If you're a kid, or heck an adult messing around with Photoshop to try and learn what it does, then I don't see anything wrong with using pirated software, instead of paying 700 dollars to buy it.
However, if you're a company, and you make money by using said software, it's wrong to not pay for that software.  I think some companies support this- that's why there are free versions of things like Maya.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2004, 03:04:29 AM by fuzzyoctopus »
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fuzzyoctopus

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Re: cool covers or remixes
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2004, 03:11:15 AM »
Another interesting question-  Why does no one complain about downloading music videos?  I've got about 2 gigs worth of music videos that I very much enjoy watching, but I never hear anyone whine and moan about how somebody's losing money because of it.

And then there are sites like http://launch.yahoo.com where you can watch all the free music videos you want.
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Spriggan

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Re: cool covers or remixes
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2004, 03:19:46 AM »
actualy you can download maya for free so you can learn it, its how the company is trying to combat pirateing and marketing itself. Maya, at the time they started doing that, the number 2 3d software on the market by a significant percentage, and they were trying to increase the number of people that could use the software. When useing the free version your rendered files are watermarked, and you can only save your file types as a special free were type that regular maya cannot read.

It is very expensive though, I had at one time a hacked copy of 3d studio max, wich is almost as expensive as maya.  And I justified haveing it by it's so expensive I'd never be able to afford it.

Speaking of wich, maybe I'll go download it.  Been meaning to get back into 3d modeling again.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2004, 03:23:48 AM by Spriggan »
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