Anne Coulters new book

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Wow, I just don't know how someone could defend Joseph Mccarthy (of Red Scare fame) but somehow this person not only tries to do it, but she calls his villianization a myth of the American Liberal.

I don't know or care what your leanings are politically, Joe Mccarth was a bad man... he stood against everything our country symbolizes and he doesn't deserve to be venerated like some sort of political god.

Here's a quote..." Despite the left’s creation of a myth to defeat legitimate charges of treason, McCarthy had so badly stigmatized Communism, his victory survived him. In his brief fiery ride across the landscape, Joe McCarthy bought America another thirty years. For this, he sacrificed his life, his reputation, his name. The left cut down a brave man, but not before the American people heard the truth."

Why she's wrong... The left had nothing to do with McCarthys fall... conservative elements of the US Army did... and when you accuse top Generals in the Army of being Communists you can be sure you'd better be right.  Shortly after his accusations the smack came down and the "unamerican trials stopped"  

McCarth tore this  country apart with his witch hunt and fostered a deep distrust in the government that continues to this day. Drunk with power he kept coming and coming untill his lies were undone one by one. But the best part is that I don't have to work hard to defend my position since the McCarthy papers were opened this year. They show McCarthy as a bellicose idiotic bully who was obsessed with his own self image and his power.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

The worst part about what this woman is saying is that she implies that it's ok to arrest someone and mess up their lives because they exercise their first amendment rights. what a stupid cow.

[Entsuropi]

I don't know why, but she reminds me of the people who said it was terrible that the Dixie chicks got blasted for their anti war stance.

And from what i know, McCarthy is a pratt. Not for what he did, but because every time i have a political discussion with my communist (not joking, he votes for the socialist workers alliance...) i am "Mccarthyist" and "carrying out a witchhunt".

Damn you McCarthy! /me shakes fist

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Are you part of a vast right wing conspiracy as well?

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

I find my leanings to be more centerist lately (but leaning a little more to the left than the right) and am disturbed by the amount of bitter and fascist sounding rhetoric coming from a small minority of Right Wingers.

You know the talk, basically everyone who disagrees with their stupid insular views is a traitor to virtue morality and human decency in addition to being a traitor to the United States.  This is an example of the idocy Coulter spews

"Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America. They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America’s self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant. Fifty years of treason hasn’t slowed them down."

or this gem

"Why is the relative patriotism of the two parties the only issue that is out of bounds for discussion? Why can’t we ask: Who is more patriotic -- Democrats or Republicans? You could win that case in court. "

Hmm lets see
Prominant Democrats
Representative Richard Gephardt - Served his country in uniform, 1965-71
Representative David Bonior - Served his country in uniform, 1968-72
Senator Tom Daschle - Served his country in uniform, 1969-72
Former Vice President Al Gore - enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam January 1971 as an army journalist, assigned to the 20th Engineer Brigade headquartered at Bien Hoa, an airbase twenty miles northeast of Saigon. More facts about Gore's Service
Bob Kerrey... Democrat... Medal of Honor, Vietnam
Daniel Inouye... Democrat... Medal of Honor, World War Two
John Kerry... Democrat...Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat
Charles Rangel...Democrat... Bronze Star, Korea
Max Cleland... Democrat... Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam
Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953.
Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger, 1971-1979.
Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
Rep. Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - two tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying Crosses as a helicopter pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier's Medal. http://www.afji.com/mags/1997/Jan/VietVets.html
Ambassador "Pete" Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW, Democratic congressman, Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver Star and the Legion of Merit http://www.af.mil/news/Apr1997/n19970414_970430.html
Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: served in combat with the U.S. Army as a staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade; was wounded and received a Purple Heart. http://www.house.gov/mthompson/bio.html
Bill McBride, Democratic Candidate for Florida Governor - volunteered and served as a U.S. Marine in Vietnam; awarded Bronze Star with a combat "V."

Prominant Republicans
Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve.
House Majority Leader Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve. "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself."
House Majority Whip Roy Blount - did not serve
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve. (An impressive medical resume, but not such a friend to cats in Boston.)
Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve
Rick Santorum, R-PA, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve.
Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. Served as President Reagan's Special Envoy to the Middle East and met with Saddam Hussein twice in 1983 and 1984.
GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years. Still says that he's "been to war."
VP Cheney - several deferments, the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service")
Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve; sought deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State
Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve.
Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve
Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a noncombat role making movies for the Army in southern California during WWII. He later seems to have confused his role as an actor playing a tail gunner with the real thing.

So I don't get it how can someone ignore the facts and spew garbage about how their counterparts in the opposite side who fought and bled for this country are traitor to the American People.
A few years ago these guys would have been labled crackpots and morons but now they're getting radio shows and book deals.

There is no liberal conspiricy in Government..., and I sure dont see one in the media (FOX news anyone)

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I love how every side of any political debate insists they're rational and centerist.

Fox is certainly conservative, but hardly deserves the label of conspiracy any more than CNN does. And yes, most media outlets ARE more liberal than conservative.

I'm not contending most of your arguments here, though I noticed that you conveniently left out prominant Republicans who served honorably and Democrats who didn't. And yes, there's a healthy list for those too.

Of course this Coulter person is a whacko. But Jeff, heads up, you're more centrist than many, but you're firmly in the Democrat camp. who do you vote for? What party do you agree with most often?

[Entsuropi]

Yes Saint, i am a fully paid up member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (VRWC, membership fee $20,000 per annum). The resurrected Hitler complemented me on my good work downtrodding the poor.

And Jeffe, i do not know a lot of what you are talking about. Just because i like subject changes:
What do you think of the EU? I have noticed that you are a lot less anti - french than me or SE (not difficult i will grant).

[Spriggan]

To me being far left or right is a bad thing and there are nuts on both sides.  I figure they more or less balance themselfs out.  I rarely agree with Ann Coulter, I find her to hostlile.  Just like I find many far left people too hostile, like Al Frankin and Michal Moore.  The  far left/right people actualy do many a people a good service...They discust people and push more towords the center.  Eric Alderman (who wrote What liberal bais in the media), who I also rarely agree with, had an intresting statment on Scarboury Country (MSNBC).  he said, and I'm paraphraseing, that most reporters and editors are Liberal.  But most of the network heads are conservitave(Rupert Murdoc is the only one I can think of).  And his whole book is about how Conservativs domanate the media.  Now it's well known that CNN is liberal, but they're not as bad as they where a few years ago when it was so biased it was painful to watch.  This was the time that they passed notes to their ancor people (which you could actualy see them do on occasion) when they say something that Ted Turner didn't agree with.  PBS is also very liberal.  Yes Fox is conservative.  What I don't get is how either side gets so hostle about this.  Jeffe called it a "conspiercy" and crap like that.  I can't get how, if some one dosen't see things the way you do that means they're "Natzis" or "commies" .  Or entitles you to become immature and call people names.  I actualy heard something on one of the news programs, I forget which but I think it was O'Riley, where a person was argueing that the right and left are in cahoots to totaly alienate as many people as possible, wanting low voter turnouts.  That way it's easyer to get re-elected.  I had a good laugh at that one, but sometimes it does seem that way.

Edit: Oh and Jeffe the reaction you got was esactly what Coulter wants.  She's like Moore, they don't care if you agree with them or not.  They just want to piss you off one way or another.

[Entsuropi]

Actually Spriggan, here in the UK, the far left IS communist. Not kidding.

The guys who go on the CND (Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament - Tony Blair once was imnportant in that organistation) marches and stuff believe fervently in communist ideals.

Go read some of Moonbats stuff in the Guardian. If he were to ever say that free market economics is as evil as nun rape, his readers would think he was going soft.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I think you missed his point Entropy. I don't believe that Spriggan was saying that there were no Communists or Nazis out there. The fact that these ideologues EXIST is hard to deny. But in American politics at least, which is more or less what we're talking about, with McCarthy, Democans and Republicrats, , Coulter, et al, the number of extremists is actually very small proportionately.

It's like saying that Jerry Fallwell is extremist, therefore, all Christians are extremists. Or that Bo Grites is a whackjob, therefore all Mormons are whackjobs. America has a MUCH smaller base of Communists or Nazis, especially ones that have any sort of major/nationwide political influence or serious and realistic political hopes.

Frankly, in most free countries that don't practice the imprisonment of political opponents (on the books anyway), there's nothing legally wrong with being a communist. I certainly don't think someone is inherantly evil or sub-human because they are communist (though I confess I have feelings like that about the other extreme. However, if they're specifically a fan of Castro or Lenin, yeah, there's something wrong. But just as I can be a believer in democracy and not care for either of the USA's last two presidents, I don't see why you can't be communist and not care for Stalin or Mao

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Im sorry, looking back at my post I see that it came off as me saying Fox news was part of some vast conspiricy where I actually really meant that I would never consider FOX news Liberal by any standards. I wa using it as an example of a major news network being very conservative. Sorry about the Dems and Repubs thing, I actually left off the most prominant from either side because I was pretty sure people knew about Bob Dole, or George Bush SR or JFK or Bill Clinton and a few others. There are plenty of congressmen who served or didn't. I think the fact that they are in congress working with the legal process to improve our country shows that they are almost all patriots.

As to my feeling about france, well they are pretty touchy. I don't hate france or the french. Theres not much of a point. I dont blame them for having different views than us. I can't. They arn't us. I saw no reason for the French to be compelled to help us out any more than we would be compelled to help if they invaded Colombia under the Auspices of making Colombia safe for Democracy.

We just have different National Interests than the French do.

I don't like the EU because it means that Europe has finally gotten organized. And the inclusion of another Superblock of power just gives the United States someone to compete with. Sooner or later we'll be at war with Europe (hopefully later than sooner) because they want resources we do, or trade monies that we do. I don't however hate them for deciding to unify.

[Spriggan]

eh, no biggie Jeffe.  If I had been reading her book to I would have been annoyed and posted a rant here too.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

War with united Europe huh? That's an interesting and not entirely implausible prospect. The question is whether the UK would be on our side or theirs.

But I don't think it would happen. Even if tensions between the US and EU became that harsh, I don't think it'd start WW3 without some other major catalyst other than just competing interests. After all, the US and the USSR never went directly against each other in open battle, and that was competing ideologies, not just competing economies. Though I reckon Tom Clancy or any decent SF writer could come up with an excuse for such a war.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

James Bond Vs the US?

[Spriggan]

Don't forget austin powers and the new Bean spy flick guy.  The US is screwed all we got is tom cruiz form MI and spy kids