An attack on fantasy fiction

[Fellfrosch]

Wow, someone's been reading the old archives. Anyway, welcome to the boards, Rob.

[fnord]

Yes, well I had plenty of time to waste, and had just found this site.  I guess I went a bit further into the archives than I realized, just saw the 2002 date.

[Entsuropi]

Welcome. I hope you are not another lit geek, there is way too many of the buggers on the forum already

[Spriggan]

or scottish, we have enought throuble keeping just Entropy in check.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

That's because you won't let me use brutal force. I can keep him inline if you let me go with my jackhammer/chainsaw idea...

welcome Rob/Fnord. Feel free to register and get yourself a meaningless title  

[fnord]

Actually I'm a bit of both - lit geek and scottish that is.  Amazing what can wander in to a web site, eh?  But what do you expect with a site like this?  SoCal doesn't seem to have much an interest in RPG'ing so I haven't been able to keep up with that, and my wife goes into uncontrollable laughter when I make any move to dredge out my tabletop stuff.  But don't worry, I'm 99% lurker anyway..

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

yay! He's dirty! I'll have the trusted servant clean you off.

I'm the other lit geek. What's your drug of choice when it comes to text genres/eras?

[Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock]

What about being a me? Is there anything about this "Rob," or "fnord" as he may be called now.character that is a likeness unto meee?

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

there are many multi-national bans on cloning you, Gemm.

[Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock]

I am not a clone!

Heh, did you enjoy reading this impersonating Nixon?? I hope you dd.

And I also noticed that Spriggan actually made attempts at long winded speeches like some of you folks. Although he still had his "speeling" problem then too.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

In defense of Spriggan (a useless gesture especially since Kid Kilowatt and his opionions have left this bullitin board)

China Mieville is bitter and idiotic in pointing the blame for bad fiction on JRR Tolkien and CS Lewis.  Do we blame Shakespeare because the musical Starlight Express bites the big one? How about Mary Shelly for the collected works of Stephan King? Do the novels of DH Lawrence really bare the blame for creating the Harlequin romance novels.
In a word NO.  

Spriggans assertation that Mieville's distaste for Tolkein and Lewis comes from a measure of their success as published writers and their avowed christian backgrounds seems nearer to the mark. If Mieville had no problem with the authors religious beliefs, then why bring it up at all? To describe the Lord of the Rings as full of Leaden moralism seems to overlooking the point of the novel entirely. To also say that the book ends on a happy note would be overlooking the final chapter as well you know the one with the broken and exhausted Frodo taking a ship into the west. Even Narnia ends on a bit of a downer, with Susan not able to join the others in paradise hardly the bright happy nice ending that Miaville seems to imply.

The fault behind Tolkeinesque fantasy falls squarely on two groups, the fans of Fantasy who for the most part enjoy Tolkeinesqe or Lewisesque fantasy and the Publishers who foist out steaming piles of fantasy manure.  

I notice that Mielle destroyed his own argument in the last two paragraphs anyway... if no one is being published if they dont copy Tolkein and Lewis then why are Gaiman, Straub, Brust, Erikson, Pinto and Gentle able to get published? In addition fantasy fiction did not exist in a vacuum before and after the duo started writing.... Fritz Lieber Robert Howard and Mervyn Peake all created incredible fantasy worlds that did not stick to the same cliches that fantasy has become associated with. Whats more the works of Peter S. Beagle and Michael Moorcock offer even more contemporary proof that Fantasy novels are not all alike.