Worldcon participants

[JP Dogberry]

You should like it cos it's aweosme mad kung, gun and wire fu, foo'!

[EUOL]

I admit there were some nifty moments, but those kung fu scenes were awful,

Actually, they were very standard for kung fu movies.  I'm thinking specifically of the Seraphim fight, which was the one that seemed to have the closest feel to what you're complaining about.  It felt very much like a classic kung fu action sequence, including that hit (pause just briefly) hit again (pause just briefly) sequencing.  I think that was intentional.  

and someone really needed to point out that there was some foolish plotting going on before, y'know, they filmed it. For example, why don't machines use projectile weapons? they gotta throw bombs or they can't attack from a distance? Mount a cannon on the dang thing! i mean, no wonder humans give you such a problem. Here's a variety of sentient beings who would be totally unharmed by nuclear fallout in case of a power plant meltdown, yet they choose to use something that can resist them as a power source instead.  

See, now, this is hardly a valid criticism of the second movie.  One of the reasons it's my favorite is that these issues play a very small part in the story, compared to number one or number three.  If this is your problem with the second movie, why call it the worst of the three?  It's alright to hate the entire trilogy for reasons like this, but don't pretend that the first movie didn't have the exact same problems.

If you wrote something like that, Brandon, you'd realize there were some pretty huge setting holes and correct it. But now I'm supposed to like it because it had a big SFX budget and supposedly asks some rudimentary philosophical questions?  

The thing is, I COULDN'T write something like this.  The Matrix movies all have terrible plots, but they're VISUAL exercises, to be enjoyed for that reason.  They aren't the greatest movies ever made, but they are visually majestic, and the second one did the best job of this (in my opinion) while having the fewest number of plot holes.  That's why it's my favorite, and that's why I think it compares favorably to the other SF that's come out recently.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I have in the past expressed my opinion that the first movie is considerably worse than my first impression. And I've never seen the third. It could very well be the worst of all.

But yes, I can apply it to this movie. Because the entire interview with the architect, which is, in fact, the goal of every moment in the movie leading up to it, hinges entirely on the problems of having a power supply with free will. In the previous movie, you can justify the lack of alternate power sources by pointing out that a nuclear power plant could explode. Sure, it can still explode, but where in the world did anyone, let alone a machine, get off thinking it made sense (which also ties in very tightly with the architect's little diatribe) to devote a major chunk of the energy that would be produced into forming an environment that the power supply itself needs? It's VERY inefficient, and to top off, the power supply can cause hiccups in the power because its freewill gets in the way. If all of this is so much a problem that you have to create more freewill beings just to regulate this power supply, why not go with something much simpler and, it appears, less likely to meltdown on you?

That is VERY much a "reloaded" complaint, because without the information provided in this specific film, the issues I have a problem with aren't important.

for a pretty movie, I'd still go see soemthing else. This movie has pretentions at philosophical importance and thinking that it's a discussion of Free Will. It may be just eye candy to you, but that's not how the film (or most of its fans) presents itself, so I find it a bit ridiculous.

[EUOL]

SE, I think all of your complaints are valid--except, I see you trying to justify the first movie and lay its ills on the second one.

In the previous movie, you can justify the lack of alternate power sources by pointing out that a nuclear power plant could explode.

No, no I can't.  YOU might be trying to offer justification, but the movie itself did no such thing.  It unabashedly claimed its premise--that the only way for machines to get power was for them to use human beings and create the matrix.

If you accept the premise of the first movie, then everything in the second movie is INTERNALLY LOGICAL.  In fact, it's far more logical than the first movie.  The computers are really really powerful, yet they can't find Zion and destroy it?  That makes no sense.  Yet, in the second movie, they explain that Zion was founded by the machines.  That makes sense.  And the entire Architect conversation makes reasonable sense as well--this is a machine world, and the idea of an occasional reboot is logical.  

As for the 'eyecandy' comment, I will agree--if you refer to things like a fine Monet or Van Gogh as 'eyecandy.'  The movie was about style, and that style was achieved quite successfully.  It's more than a 'blow things up' eyecandy movie like XXX.  It was a cohesive piece of stylistic vision.

The series has problems in conception and plotting, but these are most manifest in movie one and movie three.  If you accept the worldbuilding and stylistic vision of the first movie, then the second movie continues and expands, like a sequel is supposed to.  If you don’t accept that premise, then the second movie is silly and overblown.  

[EUOL]

In a slightly-less-controversial turn of events, BYU agreed to pay for $300 of my Worldcon trip.

Being a grad student does have its perks.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

again, I have not been shy about my claim that the first movie is not all that great. however, while it MAKES the claim, and it is a flaw, it is NOT as big a flaw as it is in Reloaded because the themes of the first one don't depend on it. They are more about epistomology (though amateurish when it comes to it) than they are about free will and fate. In the first movie, it isn't important whether they chose to use humanity or they were forced. in the second, it depends on them benig forced to use humans, which is ridiculous. (and it's hard to even swallow that humans are an efficient power source. Sure, we put out some energy, but we use most of it, and even at that it seems like the machines would have been better off using a less independent breed of animals).

Because of all this, the first movie is easier to enjoy and even accept, because the most absurd premise of hte movie is less important to accept to accept the rest of the film. Whereas in Reloaded, it's thrown right into your face.

So, in summary. You're wrong.

er... i mean, in summary, I don't really like either movie that much. But Reloaded is worse for promising more and living up to less. I don't WANT to see Revolutions after seeing this.

And I notice that you haven't addressed neo's gaining superpowers in the real world at the end. how am I supposed to swallow that?

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

oh, and woot at the 300 bones. that's like half the cost of the trip.

well, it would be for me. your plaine ticket is more expensive. still, Any amount is nice. and $300 is nothing to sneeze at.




Incidentally, everyone knows that EUOL and I aren't REALLY at each others throats, right? This is just what we both like to do. we both once spent an hour arguing about alignment in D&D, even though neither of us thought it was a very good idea.

[stacer]

Being a grad student does have its perks.

In your world at least.

Can I just say that I've kicked myself over and over again for not doing a master's at little old BYU or Illinois State instead of here? Yeah. It'd be nice to be able to afford food again.

Okay, that's a bit of my own hyperbole. Of course I eat. I just can't finish my program *and* eat at the same time.

/me wanders off again, muttering to herself about budgets and full-time/full-time

[EUOL]

Yes, but you get to be...

AN EDITOR!

[stacer]

One more week, guys! I'm so excited that so many people are coming out here. I know you're all really coming to Boston because you miss me.   The con is just an excuse! You know it is!

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

yes. that's exactly it. I wish my brother would call so I know I'm being picked up in Manchester....

[stacer]

Oh, by the way, if any of you that are coming (I'm thinking of Chris and Kristy in particular) will want me to pass along your resume to Houghton, it might be a good idea for you to email it (with a cover letter) to me beforehand, in case you might want to do an interview while you're here. I talked to my boss, who said that I could pass them on to her, as well as give a copy to H.R.

[Spriggan]

Those worldcon people that are trying to sell themselfs (besides SE), If you need a website for marketing yourself talk to me.  I'm going to try and have a "lite" version of my site manager done this weekend if it's needed.  You'll have to get you own site address.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Stacy, I recnetly did an "Editor" version of my resume. I'll pass it on. I'm always open for working in an area that interests me more than what I'm doing.

I need it critiqued though, I've never done something like this resume.

[stacer]

Send it along and I can look at it.