Author Topic: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!  (Read 13917 times)

stacer

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Re: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2005, 09:10:10 PM »
The fact of him being the Half-Blood Prince, though, kind of disappoints me about Snape, too, given that he came up with some pretty bad curses, including the really bad one--that should be unforgiveable--that Harry used on Draco. So that kind of reduced Snape in my eyes a little, though I still have hope for him in the end given the arguments that others have made, such as how he didn't kill Harry, but rather continued to give him advice while ranting at him at the end, and how he hesitated before giving the oath.
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The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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Re: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2005, 09:16:24 PM »
uhm.. that wasn't what he said though, was it? Nor do we have any reason whatsoever to believe he's thinking anything remotely like that, do we?
Instead it's all "anyone close to me will be used against me! So uh.. I think I should be dating other chicks." (ok, that last part I put in). Nevermind that everyone knows I'm tight with your whole family already, or that Hermione and Ron are still chilling with me. Or that everyone knows I've got the hots for you so they can still come after you and know they'd be getting to me.

THAT'S what's lame about it.

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Re: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2005, 01:42:55 AM »
We do have a reason to at least suspect that he is thinking something like that, since he has thought it out. Putting yourself in his situation, the thought would at least cross your mind. Again, I already explained why Ron and Hermione should stay with him. As to the fact that people already know he likes her, she is still much less likely to be hurt or taken prisoner, or somehow used against Harry when she is at home, or at Hogwarts, than if she were out with Harry.
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scAri

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Re: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2005, 02:11:09 AM »
The whole time I was convinced that Tonks had been under the Imperius curse. I mean, losing the ability to shift forms, having a new personality, having a different Patronus, and the fact that nobody was smart enough to suspect her... Or she may equally have been Malfoy under Polyjuice Potion disguise. They both had been growing really thin. One time she appeared behind Harry while he was trying to get into the Room of Requirement where Malfoy was. Anyway, she freaked me out everytime she appeared in the book (and she was everywhere this book). And when she dropped in at Hogwarts to talk to Dumbledore I was certain that she had killed him. So the fact that she confesses her undying love for Lupin at the end of the book is completely out of nowhere. Hinting and hinting and hinting and then inventing something totally different that does not relate to the hints and has not been hinted before... is bad writing, Dan Brown style.

Likewise, Madam Rosmerta did not make any significant appearance until we find out that she's been Imperiused and was behind all the murder attempts. When reading the book a second time, one would not be able to point to all the clues and say, "Ah, should have known," because there were none. I would much, much prefer Tonks being evil than all the trouble Rowling took to dig out of that hole.

It's too bad she also had to resort to a Malfoy-explains-all scene at the end to tie all the loose ends together. Granted, he may be one of the more believable characters for doing that sort of thing. But still.

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Re: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2005, 04:32:03 AM »
Let's not forget that Dumbledore had said that Snape did something huge to prove his loyalty to the good side. I'm guessing that apologizing profusely for giving away the prophecy that killed James and Lily is NOT quite it.

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Re: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2005, 09:24:43 AM »
Quote
We do have a reason to at least suspect that he is thinking something like that, since he has thought it out. Putting yourself in his situation, the thought would at least cross your mind. Again, I already explained why Ron and Hermione should stay with him. As to the fact that people already know he likes her, she is still much less likely to be hurt or taken prisoner, or somehow used against Harry when she is at home, or at Hogwarts, than if she were out with Harry.

No, no. We have NO textual evidence to indicate that anything like this thinking happened at all. That's my point.


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Re: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2005, 12:50:00 PM »
Quote
I don't see what everyone's problem is that Harry left Ginny. For one thing, she is a couple years younger than the rest of them, which means she hasn't had as much magical experience as the rest of them, so she would be less likely to be able to fend for herself when compared to Ron or Hermione. For another thing, Ron and Hermione have been through much more with Harry than Ginny has, as far as the previous conflicts in the book go. This further shows that they can handle themselves better than she can, and it also shows that they work well as a team, whereas Ginny is less definite in that area. Furthermore, since they have faced danger together multiple times already, they are, not comfortable, but at least accepting of the fact that one of them may be seriously hurt. Harry has not become accepting of this in Ginny's case, and Ron probably hasn't either. Therefore, her being with the group would probably be more of a liability than an asset.


I have to disagree with you. First of all, Ginny is only one year younger (She was a fifth year this last year in school). This means she spent the whole year preparing for her O.W.Ls and we remember how much Harry, Ron, and Hermione had to learn for that (granted she didn't get to take her tests because they ended the school year early, but I'm sure she was prepared). Second, she was in the DA which means she had plenty DADA training with Harry. Third she went to the Ministry with Harry at the end of book 5 and overall held her own. Now that she is either 16 or close to and with her fifth year under her, I think that she would be an asset. I don't think that means she will help Harry for most of book 7 (although she might), but I think that she could if Harry gave her a chance. Just cause Harry won't let her help doesn't mean she couldn't. And I don't think she would be a liability.

What happens really depends on whether the school stays open or is closed. If it is closed, what else has she to do. If it stays open, she might need to be at school so she can continue to learn. I think though that Harry will be very much tied to the school in book 7 whether he actually attends the school or not. I think he will have to go back there to get answers he needs to defeat Voldemort, and Ginny might be there to help him when he does.

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Re: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2005, 01:10:34 PM »
Good point. We should also point out that Rowling went out of her way in this book to show us how fiercely capable Ginny really is--she was incredibly good at absolutely everything she did.

As for the school closing, I can't see that happening. Series fiction relies on repetition--certain things are the same in every book. Hogwarts is not something you can just drop in book 7.
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Re: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2005, 01:28:16 PM »
it's a little late in the series to create new settings. The only place that's been used for more than two scenes in a single book is Hogwarts. I don't think that's likely to change. She just put it in there so we'd have discussions like this.

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Re: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2005, 02:58:57 PM »
Well, you're obviously exaggerating. I mean, hello, the burrow, Harry's Aunt's house, the Ministry, Hogsmeade, the train station, The Leaky Cauldron (and all other stores in that area), Sirius's house, etc. Maybe these aren't all used twice in a single book (although a lot are), but why does that matter.

Plus why couldn't she bring up new settings. More than likely Harry won't stay in the same place. She will more likely have him traveling quite a bit in the next book (and part of that will be at Hogwarts). She needs him mobile to complete the quest he needs to complete. She could be bringing up a lot of new settings in the last book.

Fell made a good point, too. Why do you think that Ginny was chosen to be a part of Slug's Club? He was obviously impressed by her ability to use magic. In an interview that JKR gave to Mugglenet and TheLeakyCauldron.org, she points out that she is setting Ginny up to be Harry's equal.

"JKR: Well, no, not really, because the plan was, which I really hope I fulfilled, is that the reader, like Harry, would gradually discover Ginny as pretty much the ideal girl for Harry. She's tough, not in an unpleasant way, but she's gutsy. He needs to be with someone who can stand the demands of being with Harry Potter, because he's a scary boyfriend in a lot of ways. He's a marked man. I think she's funny, and I think that she's very warm and compassionate. These are all things that Harry requires in his ideal woman. . . . And I feel that Ginny and Harry, in this book, they are total equals. They are worthy of each other. They've both gone through a big emotional journey, and they've really got over a lot of delusions, to use your word, together."

Found on http://www.mugglenet.com/jkrinterview3.shtml
You can't say that Ginny wouldn't be able to take care of herself when the author says that.

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Re: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2005, 03:42:56 PM »
so I'm not exaggerating. Actually, I guess you could split one of the burrow bits into two scenes in half-blood prince, so perhaps that one has 3.  A dozen settings is a very, very low number for a 6 book (so far) series. That's not good or bad, it just shows a reluctance or lack of need for more locales.

But by your argument, then she's not using those already established scenes either. Here's all the ones I can remember.
Diagon Alley: at most, 1 scene per book (not in every book)
Hogsmead: at most, 2 scenes per book, usually 1, and not in every book) (and this is pretty much an extention of Hogwarts)
The horrid aunt and uncle: 2 scenes in one book, usually only 1.
The cave: 1 scene in one book. This one has the highest potential to be used again as a location for a horcrux search.
The burrow, 3 scenes in one book, one or two (usually very brief) scenes in most books, no scenes in book 1.
The quidditch championship field, one extended scene in the whole series.
Ministry: one scene at most, usually none (though it does have one quite extended scene)
The bank: one scene at most, usually none
Train station: once per book. Possibly twice in one, but I can't remember it.
The zoo: one short scene in one book.
The park: one scene in one book (when the dementors come for him).
The Riddle home: two scenes in one book, and then only in a memory.

potential for any of these besides that cave as a scene where searching for the horcrux: very very little. Except the bank. That'd be amusing to have to break into there to get at something. The ministry would also be interesting, but it'd be a jump to convince me Voldemort reasonably stored a horcrux there.

I'm sure there'll be one or two scenes at the Burrow. Perhaps they think about plans there. There'll be 3 or 4 scenes in other place to either retrieve a horcrux or find tehy were wrong. But the guy with the necklace destroyed that horcrux, presumably without Voldemort's knowledge. And the diary and ring are destroyed. That leaves us with 4. If one is harry, that means three to find. Reasonably speaking, I'd say at least one, probably two of those are already at Hogwarts somewhere (there's problems with that theory, but there's problems with lots of things). That means a lot of time at Hogwarts, doing research and exploring.

So, no, I don't think he's going to spend a lot of time away. There's no better place to do research than Hogwarts, and I think at least one other horcrux is there.  

My theory is that one of them is in Azkaban. It's been talked about so much, time for us to see it.

I'm not sure I accept the premise that Harry is a horcrux. Tell me when/how Harry was made a horcrux? It wasn't before Voldemort cursed him, or else he wouldn't have tried to kill him. It couldn't be after, I don't think, since Voldemort disencorporated at that point.. when else did he do it? After he was brought back? Most of what I can think of doesn't seem to make much sense.

edit: oh, there's the lighthouse, one scene in one book, and the house of that old lady, one scene in one book, in a memory, and the train: usually one, sometimes two, scenes per book, always pretty short. I guess you could argue that a few of the shops are different locales than Diagon Alley, but then you have to break up Hogwarts into a dozen million different settings, and the porportion of scenes gets weighted even more in that direction.

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Re: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2005, 03:44:22 PM »
although... maybe harry's mother was one. THat could be why Voldemort didn't come for her and partially why he got thrown down when she jumped in the way.

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Re: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2005, 03:45:24 PM »
I don't see how one could say that Ginny is Harry's equal when he taught her. I suppose Rowling can do what she wants, since it is her story, but I think that is poor plotting to first have Harry teach Ginny DADA and then turn around and say she is his equal.
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Re: Half-blood Prince Spoilers!
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2005, 03:48:00 PM »
It's been a year since he taught her. SHe couldn't have caught up in that time? I don't find that unreasonable. -- plus the language of that does not mean necessarily equal in power in that one specific area.