Teaching Geography by comparing Bush to Hitler.

[The Lost One]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11667344/

As it may be, I happen to live in this school district and this teacher is at the local high school (which my kids would go too if they were old enough).

I know when I was a TA teaching politcal science, all the TAs were told to avoid making such comments. What I don't like about this is it illustrates problems in the US education system. Why is this teacher giving his political views instead of teaching geography, which he is suppose to be doing? And how is he teaching critical thinking?  

I don't think this is a free speech issue as much as an education issue. Teachers shouldn't be using the class room as a pulpit.

[MsFish]

What bothers me is that worrying about teachers sharing their personal beliefs in the classroom insinuates that high school students aren't smart enough to form their own opinions.  Granted, some aren't.  But neither are some adults.  I had lots of high school teachers say things I didn't agree with.  That didn't make me believe them, therefore it wasn't really a problem--any more than a person expressing a differing opinion in any other arena would be a problem.  

On the other hand, if the teacher was teaching this as absolute truth, that would be cause for concern.  It's hard to tell from the article if the teacher was just discussing and conjecturing or actually teaching his theories as curriculum.

[Entsuropi]

Yeah, but JP, your a fucking moron though :/ Australians would say silly things like that.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I think the controversy is summed up in the article. The problem, to me, is not so much that he has these opinions and gives them to his students, as that he doesn't present a balanced view of the subject. It doesn't sound like he's giving the other side of hte issue. His primary defenses are that he has the right to express his opinion. But the thing the school is investigating is the breach of their policy on presenting issues, against which I can't see a defense.

And, I'm not entirely sure how all his statements relate to teach geography. However, it may be that he just gives an opinion every now and then.

Like JP, though to a much less paranoid and fright-mongering extent, I don't necessarily have a problem with these issues being brought up in front of my children. We should answer the question of whether it's right to sell missles to Israel that we know are being used in a way that results in quite a bit of "collateral damage." But bringing up the question is not the same as answering, "No, this makes us evil." There should be discussion and the arguments for and against should be brought up in a non-aggressive, non-threatening manner.

[House of Mustard]

The thing that annoys me about this is not the subject -- I firmly believe that kids need to be challenged in school by beliefs they disagree with.  What annoys me is that a lot of what this guy was teaching was false.  They played the recording on the radio a couple days ago, and there were horrible inaccuracies.  Teaching harsh reality is one thing, but reading from a list of twisted political talking points is something else.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

can you give me a for example?

I was forcibly subjected to the Sean Hannity show the other day (I made them drop me off early so I wouldn't have to listen anymore, meaning I had to walk to the busstop the next day to get my car) and that was the first I heard of it. They didn't have the recording, just stupid listeners calling in and saying "Yeah I was a teacher and I quit because there was a stupid liberal teaching things that weren't true." (I did not make this up, I paraphrased, but I don't think I implied anything that the caller didn't explicitly say -- providing no details whatsoever).

[Entsuropi]

American politics are really silly. Can't you guys learn a bit of civility?

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

civi-what now?
Man, I wish you'd stop making up words.

[House of Mustard]

You can read the whole thing.  It's transcribed here: http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004689.htm

Don't worry, SE.  I didn't hear it on Sean Hannity.  I hate the man.  (I also hate The Man.)

[House of Mustard]

My favorite part of the transcript is that, at the very end of his wacky diatribe, the teacher says "I'm not in any way implying that you should agree with me. I don't even know if I'm necessarily taking a position."

[Skar]

American politics are really silly. Can't you guys learn a bit of civility?

The problem is that the kind of person who would rant like that teacher did in front of a captive audience of students is not the kind of guy who can martial either a civil or a rational argument.

I'm all for open discussion of any points of view people care to bring to the table (I know there are people on this board who think I'm a ranting lunatic incapable of reasonable discussion so you needn't point it out to me again) but that's not what the teacher was engaged in.  From the excerpts I've heard he was just ranting along the standard liberal talking points.  And from the interviews I've seen with the kid who recorded him, it was an 80% of the time occurrence (with 20% of the time being spent on teaching the subject) and was often accompanied by aggressive body language and verbal abuse of anyone who questioned him.

What also bothers me is this response to the story, which I've heard from a dozen people in the news: "Do we want to live in a world where teachers can be recorded and called on the carpet for things they say?"  This question is asked rhetorically as though the answer were obviously "No."  But my answer is, "Obviously Yes!"  There actually seem to be people out there who think teachers should be allowed to say whatever they want with no consequence.  It goes without saying that if the teacher in question had been ranting along the talking points of the KuKluxKlan those people would not think he should be allowed to say whatever he wanted.  How obviously biased can these folks get?

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

You can read the whole thing.  It's transcribed here: http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004689.htm

Don't worry, SE.  I didn't hear it on Sean Hannity.  I hate the man.  (I also hate The Man.)

Thanks! I probably will.

and I have absolutely no problem with a student recording a teacher's lecture, on or off the subject he's supposed to be teaching. He's supposed to take notes anyway. If a teacher is abusing students, the more evidence the better. Get that freak canned.

[Skar]

Without doing any further research I can point out an obvious falsehood the teacher spouted.  The missiles Clinton launched into Afghanistan did not kill "thousands of innocent Africans and Afghanistan people - Afghanis - that had nothing to do with al Qaeda or anything."    They may have killed a couple of camels.  That strike is an open joke in the intelligence community.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I read it, and there's plenty of info in there that is, at best, one sided. This teacher was clearly letting his political agenda take precedence over teaching children.

[Nessa]

If a teacher is abusing students, the more evidence the better.

I had gotten into religious debates with teachers while in high school (not a good idea, but I was really dumb then and my teachers quite liberal). Fortunately, my teachers weren't abusive about it. One was completely wrong about something and I got evidence and brought it to school, talked about it after class, and he was gracious.

Teachers, of course, have opinions and will expound on them in class. But they should never abuse students. It's about discussion, not browbeating.