Author Topic: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket  (Read 18984 times)

Chimera

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***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« on: October 03, 2005, 03:00:54 PM »
Please do not read this thread unless you have read up to Book 11 of the Lemony Snicket books. This is an exclusive club for those true die-hard fans of Lemony Snicket who have earned the right to discuss the complexity that is the Series of Unfortunate Events. If you act in oppostion of this, I can only foretell doom and gloom for you and your posterity as Count Olaf will make you the next target of his relentless schemes.

***There will be Spoilers in this thread!***
There is just no way you are the pine-scented air. --Billy Collins, "Litany"

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Tink

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Re: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2005, 03:51:49 PM »
Great! Now we have a thread. So what should we talk about? I have to say that I was really relieved when the author when off from the "Let's find another relative for the orphans to stay with" story line. It made the series much more interesting! Also, what did you think about the movie? It seems like no one who has not read the books has liked the movie. I'm not sure I get why, but since I'd read the book prior to seeing it, I don't know.

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Re: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2005, 04:36:58 PM »
/me reads and flaunts your empty threats.

Chimera

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Re: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2005, 04:38:31 PM »
You'll be sorry.  Count Olaf knows where you live.
There is just no way you are the pine-scented air. --Billy Collins, "Litany"

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Chimera

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Re: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2005, 04:41:13 PM »
I know, it's interesting about the movie. I find that too--that people who haven't read the books don't really seem to like the movie. EUOL wrote an article where he discussed why he thought this. He read the books after he saw the movie. I think there is a link under Book Reviews. Here it is.
I'm going to re-read it myself, because I know we discussed it and had similar views and I don't want to just repeat what he said.

Have you read the Unathorized Autobiography of Lemony Snicket? It came out somewhere around Book 7 or 8. That's what I really want to talk about--how that ties in to the mysteries in the book.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2005, 04:41:40 PM by Chimera »
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Re: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2005, 04:53:38 PM »
Quote
You'll be sorry.  Count Olaf knows where you live.

It's ok, I'm quite well defended by ninja monkeys. I'm certain they can handle this olaf oaf

Chimera

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Re: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2005, 05:09:39 PM »
So, I'm repeating EUOL a little bit. The complaint I've heard from people about the movie (and about the first books in the series, in fact) is that it is the same story over and over again. People who weren't fans of the books did not understand why the movie was so repetitive. And people who did read the first books solely for plot got hung up on the repetive nature and gave up early on in the series. Which is fine. But I think they are missing out.  ;)

I did find the first books a bit repetitive. But I loved the writing style--the narrative interaction with Lemony Snicket, the "author." It made me laugh. I was in a children's literature class at the time, and through a Scholastic Book Club Order had purchased in paperback books 1-9. So I kept reading them, even though they were a bit repetitive, half because they were funny enough that I wanted to, and half because I was feeling a bit OCD and felt since I paid for them I ought to read them.

In Book 5 (The Austere Academy), when the Quagmire triplets get kidnapped, I thought, "Well, this is different." That was probably another main reason I kept reading--now I wanted to find out what would happen to the triplets, and I was also intrigued by the mystery of VFD. So I moved on to Book 6--The Ersatz Elevator. I was going along, enjoying the book, almost dying with laughter when the author used two black pages to express the despair that could not be expressed in words, when right after that something happened that entirely changed how I viewed the series. The Baudelaires are having a conversation with Esme, after they are trapped in the net in the elevator shaft, when Esme says, "I want to steal from you the way Beatrice stole from me."

I remember sitting up straight in my bed. "What?" I cried.

Beatrice wasn't supposed to be in the story. I mean, in the Baudelaire part of the story. Beatrice was only referred to by Lemony Snicket in his asides and the eulogiac dedications. I had always assumed that Lemony Snicket was far removed from the Baudelaires (like maybe researching them years later).

I started stewing on that. How was Beatrice connected with Esme? And why would Esme want to steal from the Baudelaires if Beatrice had stole from her?

That's when I began to develop my wild theory--that Beatrice is the Baudelaires' mother.

Since then, I started reading with this in mind, and found things in the books that support this, and at least one thing that contradicts it. But I can't remember what that was--only that it was in Book 11, because until Book 11 I was completely confident in my theory. I do remember some of the support, if you want to hear the rest of my theory. Book 11 still makes me think my theory is possible, because we are slowly getting closer to the Baudelaires actually meeting Lemony Snicket.

So what do you think? Whenever I meet someone who has read as far as me (which is few and far between), they never seem to have had this idea occur to them. I wonder if I'm crazy. Or just exceedingly clever.   :D
There is just no way you are the pine-scented air. --Billy Collins, "Litany"

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Re: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2005, 06:58:04 PM »
Probably more clever than anything. This is possible, but I'd have to reread the books before I could have a real opinion. I guess I'm one of those people who would read a mystery, but rather than trying to figure out who'd done it, I'd just enjoying reading as the characters figure it out.

EUOL makes some interesting points about the movie and I think he's right. I agree that the plot was quite repetitive and it wasn't until we found out that there was more to the plot than just "Olaf trying to get guardianship so he can get the money" that I was really intrigued. Before that, it was just the style that really kept me reading. I thought that Lemony Snicket's humor was great (although the parts where he'd be like, "You should know this is dark and dreary and there's no reason to keep reading" was overdone). I was really excited though, when it diverged and the plot started giving us more. Sometimes the characters bug me, though. Their motivations don't seem real. Sorry if I don't remember names--it's been awhile since I read the series--but when the girl in the submarine goes off with her brother and turns bad just because she has no family left, that was totally annoying. Like that's a good reason!

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Re: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2005, 06:59:24 PM »
Quote
Have you read the Unathorized Autobiography of Lemony Snicket? It came out somewhere around Book 7 or 8. That's what I really want to talk about--how that ties in to the mysteries in the book.


I haven't read it. I heard about it, but I didn't really think about it. I'll check the local library and see if it's there.

Edit: It looks like they have it so I'll stop by on the way home from work and grab it.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2005, 07:03:16 PM by Tink »

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Re: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2005, 08:20:15 PM »
Oh, good. It's a lot of fun. Probably just about the most insane thing you'll ever read. But if you like Lemony Snicket humor, I think you'll really enjoy it. And it brings up all sorts of questions while answering others.
There is just no way you are the pine-scented air. --Billy Collins, "Litany"

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Chimera

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Re: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2005, 12:20:39 PM »
Quote
Sometimes the characters bug me, though. Their motivations don't seem real. Sorry if I don't remember names--it's been awhile since I read the series--but when the girl in the submarine goes off with her brother and turns bad just because she has no family left, that was totally annoying. Like that's a good reason!

Yeah, that was a bit of a stretch for me. There are times when the books remind me of absurdism--people act in the extremes of emotions to make a point. Like how practically every adult is either ineffective or evil. (That was why my dad hated the movie.) I think it is an exaggeration of how children regard adults at times. Children are not in power. And the world can seem cruel, like it is for the Baudelaires. The books take this to the extreme, so that the children seem to be the only strong and reliable characters.

I am really interested to see how the series ends--if it will be doom and gloom, or if the Baudelaires will be allowed some sort of triumph (although I am sure that it will not be perfectly happy-ever-after ending). The fact that Book 11 ended on the up swing makes me think there might be a happy ending.

Do you think one of their parents is alive? I kind of think that in the picture they found of the four people (their parents, Jacques Snicket, and someone whose face is obscured) that the person who isn't visible is Lemony Snicket--just like he isn't visible in any of his pictures in his bios or in the Unauthorized Authobiography. So the fact that scribbled on the back is something along the lines of "One of these may still be alive," makes me think that it is referring to Lemony Snicket, not one of the Baudelaire parents. But that seems really harsh to get the Baudelaire's hopes up and then dash them. But it is The Series of Unfortunate Events. So I'm not really sure about that one--whether one of their parents is alive.
There is just no way you are the pine-scented air. --Billy Collins, "Litany"

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Re: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2005, 12:24:08 PM »
Okay, so I got it last night and slightly read it. I was reading during commercials, so I probably missed stuff, but it did bring up a lot of questions for me. For example, it sounds like it was kids running the VFD, not adults (referring to the script from a meeting that says something like, "I'm nine years old . . ." Also, it Lemony Snicket made it sound like he was a kid when he fell in love with Beatrice and there is a picture of Beatrice as a child. Plus they showed a picture of that movie director and he was a kid, too.

Have you figured out who all the letters stand for? There are obvious ones, like J = Jacques, L = Lemony, B = Beatrice, O = Olaf, E = Esme, G = (can't remember name, but one who did the newspaper articles, Gertrude, or something), but did you catch K? I need to go through that book again and see if I can understand more. It's interesting that all the families have three children. What is the significance of that? (Jacque, Lemony, and other sibling; the triplets; Sunny, Violet, and Krause; maybe others I don't know of). Also what is up with the sugarbowl??! Do they use that for secret messages or something? I was disappointed that they didn't leave any of those "Ring" codes things undone so we could figure it out on our own.

Have you read Artemis Fowl? It has a secret code on the bottom of the pages of book 1 and 4. That's pretty fun to figure out, even though no language would translate letter per letter like that, but still fun.

Chimera

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Re: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2005, 04:11:15 PM »
K is for Lemony Snicket's other sibling, I believe. His sister Kit, who the Baudelaires meet at the end of Book 11.
There is just no way you are the pine-scented air. --Billy Collins, "Litany"

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Re: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2005, 04:21:44 PM »
Quote
I am really interested to see how the series ends--if it will be doom and gloom, or if the Baudelaires will be allowed some sort of triumph (although I am sure that it will not be perfectly happy-ever-after ending). The fact that Book 11 ended on the up swing makes me think there might be a happy ending.

Do you think one of their parents is alive?


Well, considering the fact that Lemony Snicket says at the beginning that if you want to read a story with a happy ending, you shouldn't read this story because it doesn't end happily. He's obviously alive long enough to write the books, so he probably is alive. But I wonder if he is writing the book shortly after the events take place, so it could be that he doesn't really know how it's going to end, so it could end more happily than he thought it would.

I thought it was interesting how he incorporated real fiction with made up fiction in his autobiography. I wonder, though, what exactly the code was that was found in this fiction. I think that Poe's poem refers to the code that begins with the ringing of the bell, but I'm not sure how the children were suppose to figure this out. Also, what does the "Age 8" book or Laura Ingall's book fit in? What's the code there?

There are just too many questions and not enough answers, don't you think? Do you have any more theories on what the different things mean, besides Beatrice being the Baudelaire's mother?

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Re: ***Spoiler*** Lemony Snicket
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2005, 04:23:54 PM »
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K is for Lemony Snicket's other sibling, I believe. His sister Kit, who the Baudelaires meet at the end of Book 11.


I figured it was the other sibling, but since it's been months since I finished the series, I forgot they introduced Kit. That makes sense because LS circles her picture and writes a note like, "Will I ever see her again?" She leaves with two orphans when she leaves the Prufrock school. Do you have an idea of who? And why are they always taken by their ankles?? So weird.