Return of the King *SPOILERS*

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Eowyn and Aragorn

Im glad they didn't get together, Remember in the book she and Faramir are supposed to fall for each other in the houses of healing and cement the bond between Rohan and Gondor forever. The scenes between her and Faramir would have been great too.  Two amazingly resolute personalites, honest, true with a bit of rebelious streak. Eowyn would have been miserable with Aragorn now that the excitement of war is over. She needs that kind of excitement in her life.

[House of Mustard]

I know..I know...   I'm not compaining about the movie's treatment of the Eowyn and Arwen thing, I'm more complaining about the fact that Arwen does absolutely nothing whatsoever (she does even less in the book).  I understand that she and aragorn have had a relationship for years, but unless we're shown some reason why they like each other, I don't see why we should care.  And I don't.

[Fellfrosch]

My brother-in-law (and Mustard's, for that matter) is the same way--he hates the LotR movies just because everyone else likes them. Of course, when you consider that this guy also told us that Pearl Harbor was awesome and that the Fast and the Furious was going to win Best Picture, you realize that he's not exactly an intelligent, useful source of film criticism.

[Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock]

Oh come on. You know you just wanted to see Arwen an Eowyn duke it out in a big puddle of orc death or something.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I vote we tie this individual up with rubber straps and pummel him for being so foolish.

[Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock]

Ok fine. We'll compromise. Jell-o?

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

well, I wasn't talking about you, but now that I think about it, this co-ed naked crisco twister championship thing you've got going with Arwen and Eowyn is pretty cool.

[Lieutenant Kije]

Hmm...I wonder if anyone has any fantasies about that...

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

definitely not me...

[JP Dogberry]

First things first: The battle of Minias Tirith was NOT AS COOL as the Battle of Helm's Deep. Close, though.

Aragorn getting his sword Rocked.

Legolas killign the Oliphant Rocked.

The Rohan riders preparing for battle, and finally arriving, Rocked.

My absolute favourite part of the film was the lighting of the beacons of Gondor. I liked the whole feeling as they sent their signal, one by one, and Aragorn runs in to see Eomer, and says "The beacons are alight! Gondor calls for our aid!" and Eomer replies with my favourite line in the film: "And Rohan shall Answer!"

Eowyn fighting the Witch-Lord ROCKED.

The bits I didn't like:

I think there wasn't enough denouement between Minas Tirirth and the massive battle at Mordor. Aragorn's "This day we fight!" speech should have been rousing, but I was too tired out from the last battle.

I think the ending was too long. I admit I still haven't read the books, but if I was Peter Jackson, I would have made an executive decision and cut it by about three quarters. Especially since I didn't really see any relavence in Frodo writing a book, and Bilbo leaving for somewhere.

Major good movie though.

[Entsuropi]

I dunno. I just watched the extended version on DVD (got it for christmas, natch) and i have to wonder at the magically disappearing elves.

300 men.
300 elves.

Lets be generous and say 200 of each die in the battle. You see the elves retreating to the keep, and then they disappear. You see the men retreating into the mountain, and then they disappear. So that by the end of the film, apparently only 12 men are left. Wheres the other 200 infantry?

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but while Helm's Deep was cool, it was too long for me, and it seemed like nothing changed in that time. There were always enough men and elves until  it was suddenly convenient for there to be no one left.

Anyway, I liked the end. I don't see how you could NOT see the book relevant. After the continuous discussion, esp in TTT about the stories of old, and Bilbo writing in it at the very beginning of the series.

The leaving scene IS the end. You'll recall Frodo and Gandalf and the elves all left then too. It partially shows how the hobbits were so important: NO ONE goes to the undying lands but elves, and the VERY few people invited: Bilbo and Frodo, for example.

[Fellfrosch]

The battle of Helm's Deep was more detailed and intimate, whereas the siege of Gondor was more sweeping and epic. They both have their merits, but I'll take the charge of the Rohirrim over just about any other action scene in any other movie. That was so stirring I felt like I was in a blender.

[Mistress of Darkness]

I have to say that the interaction between Gandalf and Pippin was my favorite part of the movie. I'd been looking forward to that since the first time I saw Fellowship. My dad read the trilogy to my brothers and me when we were younger and I can still hear in my mind the disgruntled voice of Gandalf (as read by my dad) when he called Pippin by his full name. I also like the scene where Pippin looks at the seer stone and confronts the dark lord. To me it is a way of showing that all Hobbits have this inherent strength that Sauron cannot easily corrupt. It's not just Frodo, all Hobbits have this quality.

I loved Gandalf's reference to a life after death. I thought immediately of Tolkein's friendship with C. S. Lewis (not to say that it necessarily has anything to do with anything), but more than that I think it gives a deeper meaning to why the armies fight, and where some of their courage comes from. When there is nothing to fear from death, then it makes it easier to do the right thing, despite the risks.

I think HoM is selling Arwen a little short. Put your personal feelings about Liv Tyler aside and look at the character itself. (I think she's pretty, but then I'm a brunette, maybe that has something to do with it. I also don't find that her acting style bugs me, but I can understand if she doesn't hold the same charms for the rest of you.) Arwen's strength is not her ability to wield a blade, though in Fellowship they show that she is not unskilled with one. Arwen's strength is in her faith. One of my favorite lines is when she says "You are Illsadur's heir, not Illsadur himself." At the times Aragorn doubts himself, her faith in him and his abilities remains strong. It reminds me a lot of Mary Smith, Hyrum's wife and Joseph Fielding's mother (I think that's right). Her strength came from her faith in God and in the leaders of the church. She was never unwilling to make sacrifices, and she was a great blessing to many throughout her life. I think this is the kind of woman, and the kind of strength, that Peter Jackson was trying to protray with Arwen as a character.

As for Arwen vs. Eowyn, I don't think the choice was that hard. Aragorn realized that to Eowyn he was an icon, a heroic figure, but to Arwen he was a person. She saw him as he was, and sometimes she saw him more clearly than he saw himself. I think that's one of the signatures of true love, the ability to see the truth and love the person anyway.

[House of Mustard]

MoD:  Not to play the devil's advocate, but Fell pointed something out that I found a little interesting.  Instead of looking at Arwen as a woman of great faith (you compared her to Mary Smith), you could also think of her as the rebellious daughter, turning her back on faith: marrying outside the covenant, and trading the blessings of eternity for a marraige that will end at death.