Author Topic: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe  (Read 14085 times)

Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2005, 08:43:11 PM »
well heres hoping the movie is good, itd be a shame to see someone butcher the book.
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Skar

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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2005, 11:12:41 PM »
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"much cuter" is hardly dodgey. I want to see this movie really bad. Skar has not deterred me. But I'm very gladd Eagle, Mr. Gibbs and Ent disagree with Skarsome.


I'm glad that I did not deter you.  I'm anxious to hear your report on how you liked the film.  My opinion is just that.  I value specific things in a film.  Others value different things.  I hope you all enjoy it.  I wish I could have.

I must say, though, that after Patrick said what he did about this film, I'm tempted to go see Aeon Flux.  Just to see if the disconnect works in the other direction too.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2005, 11:14:25 PM by Skar »
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Patrick_Gibbs

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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2005, 07:09:20 PM »
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"much cuter" is hardly dodgey. I want to see this movie really bad. Skar has not deterred me. But I'm very gladd Eagle, Mr. Gibbs and Ent disagree with Skarsome.


All due respect I meant to Skar's opinion - we simply just have different thoughts on the film.  But the more I thin kabout, the more I really love this movie, and I couldn't not have been more satisifed.

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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2005, 01:23:01 AM »
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Scenes like Lucy's wonder at finding herself in a strange winter world for the first time are important but not worth 5 whole minutes of screen time consisting of different shots of her wandering through fifty feet of forest and catching snowflakes on her tongue.

It's less than one minute. I paid attention to this when we went to see the movie yesterday.

We enjoyed the movie quite a bit. I liked it much more than Harry Potter 4. Karen, as someone who has reread all the books in the last couple months, was very happy with it, and was only sad that ONE line from the book was left out. I, as someone who has not read the books in over 10 years, was very happy with it according to what I remembered and how I judged its success internally. Good movie.

Are the Gibbs going to do their own review of this one? Does the site only take one review per movie?
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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2005, 11:57:38 AM »
We typically only do one, but I'm willing to accept second opinions on really big movies (like this one). Unless someone gives it 6 clocks, in which case I'm gonna start busting heads.
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Patrick_Gibbs

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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2005, 11:59:53 AM »
Quote

It's less than one minute. I paid attention to this when we went to see the movie yesterday.

We enjoyed the movie quite a bit. I liked it much more than Harry Potter 4. Karen, as someone who has reread all the books in the last couple months, was very happy with it, and was only sad that ONE line from the book was left out. I, as someone who has not read the books in over 10 years, was very happy with it according to what I remembered and how I judged its success internally. Good movie.

Are the Gibbs going to do their own review of this one? Does the site only take one review per movie?


We have no intention of doing a review of the film. Skar has already presented a well written review. We do disagree about as strongly as possible, but Skar dissagreed with us on "Jarhead." Different critics, different opinions.

I'd be happ to post further thoughts on it, but this was Skar's movie to review, and do not wish to treadd on his territory.
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Skar

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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2005, 12:25:03 PM »
Quote

Karen, as someone who has reread all the books in the last couple months, was very happy with it, and was only sad that ONE line from the book was left out. I, as someone who has not read the books in over 10 years, was very happy with it according to what I remembered and how I judged its success internally.


And here is one of my main objections to it.  Nearly everyone that I have talked to says they liked it because it didn't leave anything out that was in the book.  That in and of itself is a problem.  Being slavishly devoted to the book is the perfect way to make a BAD adaptation to the movie media.

And, frankly, I don't understand how people can say that it followed the book that closely when the children, the main characters, acted so completely different in the movie than in the book.  For example, there is no scene in the book where you have Peter facing down danger with Susan standing right next to him screaming in his ear about how he should just put down the sword, let their new friends die, and abandon Narnia to domination by the White Witch.

Nor in the book do you find Aslan explaining to Susan and Lucy that the white witch "interpreted" the Deep Magic differently than he did, as though truth is in how you interpret it. (blatant overtones of relativism and Political Correctness here that were most definitely NOT in the book).
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 12:25:42 PM by Skar »
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Skar

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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2005, 12:31:50 PM »
When it comes to a different Review of the film...

I thank the Gibbs Brothers for their consideration.  I am, however, amenable to the idea of someone else posting a second review.  Mike Darpino and I both reviewed the first LOTR (and would have probably joint reviewed the other two if I had been in-country for either of them) so there's definitely precedent for two reviews of prominent films.

If the Brothers Gibbs care to review LWW I'd be happy to post it.
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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2005, 12:37:55 PM »
we will run multiple reviews of the same product provided they have something different to say about said product. Which, apparently, they do.

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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2005, 01:30:02 PM »
Quote
Nor in the book do you find Aslan explaining to Susan and Lucy that the white witch "interpreted" the Deep Magic differently than he did, as though truth is in how you interpret it. (blatant overtones of relativism and Political Correctness here that were most definitely NOT in the book).


Feel free to stop using rhetoric at your own discretion. It doesn't help your arguements.

In the book Aslan says 'there was a deeper earlier magic she did not know about'. In the movie he says something like 'she did not understand the deep magic correctly'. The basics stay the same: her understanding was imperfect. Dialogue was changed like this throughout, tinkering it to make it sound more modern, less gee-whiz.
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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2005, 02:09:47 PM »
Frankly, analyzing this from a religious perspective, it was nothing but anti-lionist propaganda. It's well known Andrew Adamson coems froma  fringe group of fundamentalist animators who reject "The Lion King", and blame the midgets and cows of today for the action of dwarves and minotaurs long ago. Furthermore, the graphic depiction of Aslan's death much too brutal, especially the over long, blood-soaked mane shaving sequence.

Seriously, loved the movie. Points of view differ, especially on adaptations of beloved source material. I respected Skar's respectfull disgareement with me over "Jarhead", and we have the same situation here. A second review is uneccessary. A review is an expression of one opinion, not the site's or it's readers. I know Skar, Fellsfroch and others often disagree with my reviews (I can almost guarantee my upcoming "Syriana" review will elicit some negative reaction), but don't post rebuttals. It's possible Patrick and I will elaborate on our thoughts regarding "Narnia" in our year-in-review articles, but it's diffilcut to say at this point.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 02:11:13 PM by Paul_Gibbs »
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Parker

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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2005, 02:36:54 PM »
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Nearly everyone that I have talked to says they liked it because it didn't leave anything out that was in the book.  That in and of itself is a problem.  Being slavishly devoted to the book is the perfect way to make a BAD adaptation to the movie media.


I'll agree that "slavish devotion" to a book can certainly lead to problems with an adaptation, but it is hardly a universal law.  I have yet to see the film, but I feel comfortable saying that with a book as short as LWW, the problem I'd see a director having in adapting it would likely be in deciding how to flesh it out, not how to trim it down.  Harry Potter IV, on the other hand, needed a good trimming, and it got it.  When I hear that LWW had everything the book had, it doesn't make me dread seeing it, or think that it must be a bad adaptation.

In all honesty, Skar's review of the film seems far more obsessed with how he feels that his own personal interpretation of the book failed to make it to the screen.

Quote
The children were innocent and brave (if misled in Edmund's case) from the beginning to the end of the book. I will go so far as to say that I think Lewis made them that way on purpose, the better to focus on the themes he was playing with. Trying to tell a book length story on film is difficult enough without trying to make it more complicated by throwing in extraneous and ham-handed character development arcs that work directly against the main themes of the story.


Who decides what the "themes" of the novel are?  Who decides what Lewis "intended"?  In this case, it is the reviewer.  Obviously, these sort of ideas are very much up for debate, and saying that the film failed to capture the "themes" of the novel is just as poor an argument as saying you loved it because it didn't leave anything out.  The bottom line for me is that fidelity is a very squishy substance.  It changes from one person to another, and using it to evaluate an adaptation works for only one person--the evaluator.  In Skar's defense, he did point out specific aspects of the movie he didn't like--the cinematography, writing, acting, and pretty much everything else.  That's far more stable ground to build a criticism on, but I still walk away from the review thinking, "Well, so it didn't capture his take on Narnia.  I wonder what it will do for me?"  My suggestion for anyone who watches an adaptation of one of their favorite books--and hates it--is to go back to the book and try to see what the adapters saw there.  Maybe Lewis's dialogue really is rather wooden, or maybe the character arcs aren't really well developed.  Or maybe Lewis was trying to capture a fairy tale like feeling, and so he kept the book on the sparse side.  In any case, any adaptation--good or bad--should be an invitation to go back to the book and learn more about it.

I also wonder why there seems to be such a great divide between reviews of this film.  Judging from Rotten Tomatoes, most reviewers liked it.  Some sing its praises.  Some say how stunning the acting was--and then some say how awful.  Why is that?  I really need to get the time to go see this flick, but in the meantime, I have two ideas that might be the cause of it:

1.  People are comparing it to LOTR.
2.  People are upset about how it handles the Christian themes.

Those of you who have seen it will have to throw your two cents in.  I'll have to wait until I'm better informed.

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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2005, 03:06:57 PM »
The reviews for this movie have been primarily positive (76% on rottentomatoes), but Parker is right in that the opinions vary much more wildly than for a typical movie. Independently, I had come to the same conclusion as to why that might be (LotR and Christianity), but I, like him, haven't seen it. I'm very interested to hear what people have to say on the topic.
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Skar

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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2005, 04:28:53 PM »
"Skar is the kind of bird who, when you try to kill him with a stone, uses it, and the other bird, to take vengeance on you in a swirling melee of death."

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Skar

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Re: The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2005, 04:54:21 PM »
Quote
In all honesty, Skar's review of the film seems far more obsessed with how he feels that his own personal interpretation of the book failed to make it to the screen.


Aside from all the actual examples of bad acting, bad plotting and shoddy direction that I gave you mean? (Ookla's stopwatch of the Lucy in the snow scene doesn't change the fact that it took too long.  The feeling could have been established in ten seconds.  If it only took fifty, as Ookla has pointed out, it's still 5 times longer than was needed.  Arsenic in an apple pie man.)

I'm totally OK with folks disagreeing with me.  A review is an opinion, and I am not the only one that holds this one.  Perhaps I'm the only one on the boards, but as my link above proves I'm certainly not the only reviewer that feels this way.

I value certain things in a film: coherent plotting, believable characters and motivation, good dialogue, a smooth flow of ideas...to name a few.  If you liked this film you obviously value other things. Where's the problem?

And for the record:
1.  People are comparing it to LOTR.
2.  People are upset about how it handles the Christian themes.

Neither of those things caused me to give it a bad score.  Aside from the brilliant costuming and CGI it was just a badly made film for all the reasons I made clear in my review.

And your primary level explication of how a reviewer/author's opinions color his work do nothing to deal with the fact that the character arcs they tried to add in the film were handled very poorly.  They fundamentally changed the characters of the children in the beginning of the film and then tried to jump them, with no discernible transition, into the roles Lewis made for them in the end.  It didn't work.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 05:02:57 PM by Skar »
"Skar is the kind of bird who, when you try to kill him with a stone, uses it, and the other bird, to take vengeance on you in a swirling melee of death."

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