RPG software

[Spriggan]

Well I've uninstalled Dark age of camelot from my PC, both cause it didn't like to run and I played the dumb game way too much.  So I'm takeing a long (at least a month-month and a half) break from the game.   I've been going back through my old flash stuff and I had allwayse been wanting to make RPG software.  Like a character generator or DM's micromanage sheet.  On of the advantages of these is I don't have to do realy any graphics   so I won't hit that annoying snag.  So here's my question.  Do people ever use these? What would you want to see and for what game?  I realy want to try and throw someting together this month.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I don't.

But I could really use a good one. The problem is I haven't seen any that save me any trouble.

I can appreciate why. My friend and I were wrote a car construction program for Car Wars in high school and it was a pain to include everything from the core book, let alone the supplements.

However, we were also morons playing with Pascal for the first time and didn't even use a database, we just hard coded all the possibilities into the program itself.

So basically, I don't see what's so hard about it for someone who knows how to actually PROGRAM. I hate the WotC CharGen program because it produces these 19 page monstrosities you can't use as a quick reference. In my mind you should be able to see everything in one or two pages without having to hunt and peck.

As for ideas for how to do it, I think the best interface would be something that looks like how the sheet will when printed. I'd like to see it update in real time, so, if you do a d20, when you raise the dex, it should automatically recalculate AC, Dodge save, initiative, ranged attack (as well as any specific weapons) and any related skills/feats. When you choose feats, you should be able to look at any feat trees if you choose (but it doesn't have to be the default interface), and see a short description of what the feat does (or if you do something besides d20, any ability work the same.)

As for a DM sheet, I'd only use one for a full campaign, and really, what I'd use could just as easily be made as an Excel spreadsheet, though I could think of some minor functionality that could be added. I like to see the names of the characters, a brief hint at what they're like ("halfling thief," or "slacker/hacker" or whatever's relavent). If i'm ambitious, I'll put their basic attributes and important special abilities, but I trust my memory for that mostly. I DO, however, need to see their conflict and goals in the campaign. This is where it'd be nice to have some sort of tracking information so I can see how close I am to each goal.

Like I said, I can really do that on an excel sheet.

Whatever you do, it'd be GREAT if I could output the information to Word, or at least as an RTF. so I can manipulate the data without opening the program. and whatever you do, don't make it hog my screen like WotC's programs do. I can focus on more than just my character generator. I want to see my AIM and email and winamp while I'm working.

I think one of the most useful systems to do this for would be d20. Then Whitewolf (though I don't play them). GURPS has too much information to include (building the DB might be a pain in the arse) and Hackmaster/older D&D games aren't systematic enough, and would probably take more work, though the lack of customizable progression might make the interface easier. Just my 2 bits.

[Entsuropi]

White wolf games already have Chargen. Makes your characters in a setting that is essentially the character sheet (the dots etc) and you go thru, setting prioities and distributing dots. Its a pretty solid program, although it seems to think that running the first page onto a second sheet of paper is clever.

D20 could use one tho. Of what use to me is the WotC one when im making a OA campaign? WotC really need to learn what "product support" means in relation to computer programs.

A DM tool... i dunno. Im of the opinion that simply making a webpage, with player access using 1 password and DM access using another would do the job. put all your info up in teh DM section, then transfer the relevant portions across as the campaign progresses. sorted

[Tage]

This is an interesting coincidence, because just today I started having all these ideas of how to implement a d20 RPG forum. Basically, something that would be *designed* to play the AORP game (see Saint Ehlers sig for details). I still need to solidify what kind of features could be added, but I think there's a lot that could be done to make it more convenient and more fun.

So for everyone reading this, start thinking up cool features a full RPG forum could have. I need to mull it over before deciding anything, but right now I can't stop thinking about it.

[Spriggan]

Back when I use to be a gm at the online Starwars RPG (old West end) they wanted a way to data base stuff and I was going to do somehthing but my knowlege of flash at that time was crap.  I think that The AORPG needed something like that but sence I don't know SE that much I never bothered to do it.  But with Flash MX's database capabilityis i could make someting cool.  I do agree that it should be updated Real time.  All the ones I've ever seen have allwayse been tab/window based.  IE all the different sections are in another tab or window.  As far as DM client, i mean something that a GM would use in game to organise stuff.  But maybe I should whip out a Sample D20 program and we can go from there.

Edit. Just a note I orignaly wanted to make the Build a droid game to be able to create a droid stats based on what you made, then print it out.  but I'm just too lazy.  but it would be cool I thought.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

To start with shameless self promotion, I'm not introducing any NEW characters, but I have a number of OLD characters that have been made into NPCs lately. Most of the characters are male and of a warrior bent, but some have some very interesting backgrounds and stories. Feel free to contact me and let me know if anyone at TWG wants to join in (Fell and Tage as obvious exceptions, since they already have characters).

There are two things I currently have issue with a strict msg board format. One, is making sure people post to it. There's nothing you can do but personally screen game applicants and not be afraid to make PCs into NPCs if someone won't post.

The other is when a few people need to make a plan. The current thread shows this. It's a weird situation, in that I've got everyone in the world back together with the aim of splitting them into different groups to get a few people who encourage others to post to interact with the maximum number of players. (if that made sense, you win a prize). However, it illustrates a real problem. If we were all around a table, they could all yell at each other and have a grand time till someone decided "THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DOING! NOW PUT UP OR SHUT UP!" However, on a msg board, that sort of argument takes days. With this many people, it takes weeks.

I have a solution when no one is coming up with any action (another minor problem, the format encourages personality, but not action, so a lot of people will say things, and then leave me with a "now what" question as a DM). But if only one person proposes action, I can just assume that's what they all do. In the current case, there's about 3 plans (with a billion variations). So I have to wait for them to decide (although if they don't start agreeing, dawn will come and a certain NPC will make some changes to the scenario). I don't know how coding can rectify this situation.

As for features? Well it depends on progression. You can't (well, you CAN, but you SHOULDN'T) base level progression on assigning xp for traditional D&D things. Because those come so infrequent (though, as has been pointed out, the game so far only takes place over 3 days, and many people have gained several levels...). I base progression on quantity and quality of posts. Quantity is insufficient, it encourages people to post "Me too" type of posts. You can delete those, but it makes you look like a jerk. Quality means judging how well they do, which as a DM, you really are in the job for. However, it's tedious to do this individually, so I just try to remember how well they did.

Now to the point. If I could immediately moderate a post without having to verify it or log in as something special (ie, my admin account was automatically capable of it) it wouldn't be tedious. That way, I could make a post worth any xp value (though I may not want players to see what it was). It would also need a page that would display to admins what each player had gotten from their posts. It should also let me know if there are any non-valued posts (ignoring things in the certain forums, I don't need to moderate posts to the "Cool things..." thread, jsut ones game related). I guess that mans I'd like it related to forums, not a universal feature.

It'd also be nice to have HIGHLY customizable user accounts. Including stuff only admins could alter, like game stats, etc. If you want to get really advanced, mix in the user accounts with the chargen engine. When they create an account, it let's them build a character (either by points or by a 4d6 minus one die option for my D&D game). Then anyone can reference their sheet just by looking at their user account.

To be honest, that's sort of my goal with learning perl, making a BB that allows me to do all those things.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

 I think that The AORPG needed something like that but sence I don't know SE that much I never bothered to do it.  But with Flash MX's database capabilityis i could make someting cool.  

Actually, we have met a couple times, I think. You're Brandon's brother, right? At any rate, I don't mind if you want to help me code something. (When I say "help me code" i mean, tell me what you think I need, let me amend it and tell you what I think I need, and then YOU code something). I'm all for improving my facillities.

[Spriggan]

ok Here's how my design for the on-line manager tool was going to work for the Starwars RPG guys.

First it was a character generator.  All characters were saved Server side and a copy was sent to the GM that the character had appled to (how there system worked was that there was a head GM for each section.  IE rebelion, empire and third party.  then a bunch of sub GMs for each different deparment.  so the dark jedi were under the empire. and then game GM's in each section).  
Second it was a character micro manager for the Game GM.  here is where the GM can see all the players in his campaign and do things such as: approve levels (then a player could log in a lvl) add negeative lvls.  approve equipment changes and all things like that.
third it allowed the main GM to have access to all the stuff and the ability to change skills and ability scores.

[42]

Sounds like everyone has some cool ideas. JFYI, lately I've been using pcgen. I find that it provides for most of what I need, most of the time. It is fairly flexible and incorporates multiple manuals. The version I have makes use of almost every manual published by WotC, Malhavoc Press, Avalanche Press and several other including web suppliments for d&D, Star Wars, Deadlands ect... It also has town, treasure, item, monster, dungeon generators and editors. It also lets me output everything in various formats. It's java based and from what I've heard doesn't always operate so smoothly on every computer, not to mention having several bugs. The entire program has, from my understanding, been put together by a bunch of slacker coders with nothing better to do.
Course it doesn't have a gm campaign manager. For that I have been resorting to my own spreadsheets and the like. So I would be interested in some sort of gm tool. I have a copy of d&d's etools which, in short, sucks. It almost never works right and is just annoying to use.

[Spriggan]

Out putting things into different formats now days isn't that hard at all.  I'm just useing flash cause it's what i know the best.  but you can output formated text, graphics, send PHP/Perl/Java varables and all the likes very easy.  Also adding new books is easy, just tedious.  You have to type all the text files percisely.  And SE I realy don't undersand what you mean by not haveing to log in to the forum/manager but being able to manage things as a admin.  I guess you could have seperate software that bypasses the log in, but that's just plain lazy in my mind.  can't spend 20 seconds to log into your admin account.

But as Tage will probaly tell you, doing your forum in PHP will allow you to do a lot of the EXP stuff you were talking about easier then you could do in pearl.  The easiset way would to have the EXP given for a post only go for the poster.  It will be kind of a pain to do one that would know which players are in what game.  but once you get that done you could have a check box for exp that would allow you to assign all the players the base EXP or input it seperatly.

and yes you've met me several times but I just do offer to do things or make suggestions on things like this unless I know the person.  Hehe this post was more for a offline thing that players would want to use.  But sence Tage brought up your site it's turned into a more intresting topic in my mind.

What I would do is allow a person so many spaces for character slots.  like say 2-4.  when you view a persons profile you can also choose to view the characters.  That way a person can have more then one PC with out you haveing to go edit someing in your code when ever a person wants a second character on your server.  Now you can have the option to have those extra slots locked at the begning then have a GM/Admin unlock one when the person gets the approval to make a new character.

[Entsuropi]

42, can i have a copy of that character creation thingy of yours? it sucks making DnD char sheets in excel or word.

Oh and saint, how does the AORPG work? its a simple discussion board, right? i could do with getting into a d20 game. the online one i was a part of broke up when i got into an argument with the GM who was having a paddy.

[Fellfrosch]

What do you think about a feature where the forum would automatically send out an email to a player who hadn't posted in a while (say, four days)? Just a quick reminder (or reprimand, if you like) and a link to the appropriate thread. That might get people to post more often.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Yes, 42, where can I acquire that program?

Spriggan, I'm not sure I understand why PHP would be easier than Perl. But then, I'm not doign the coding and I'm still a beginner at both. I generally try to use Perl because I have two very close friends who are Perl experts and will help me out. As for not logging in, you can probably disregard that. I'm thinking of a problem specific to UBB that requires to login (using the same account) separately to perform admin functions and posting functions. It's annoying. But just make it so I don't have to login INDEPENDENTLY of logging in to post in order to moderate.

Now the idea of having 3-4 different characters for each player is interesting. Although I can see more code going into it. It'd be nice if the display name inside a forum specifically used the character name rather than a login name, however. But I again, I REALLY like the idea, as I've had people in more than one game on AORP and therefore needing different accounts to have different names (Deadlands names don't necessarily wor for Arthurian England etc...)

Entropy: it's simple. I use D&D 3rd Ed. mechanics (mostly), and every player gets a copy of their char sheet, but I handle all the rolls and every thing (I frequently cheat to make sure something happens, like a critical bluff attempt, that sort of thing). I let people level their own characters if they like, however. Mostly you just post on the board. Normal text for actions, quoted text for dialog, and italics for meta-game comments. I prefer first person posting, but it's common to see 3rd person (since I have to post that way to run NPCs and many others pick it up).  Are you interested in picking a character?

Fell, I like that idea too. There are a few people who've told me they'll be playing and still haven't posted. Maybe all they need is a reminder, but it's sort of a bother to do all that manually, since I can't define a mailing list in UBB by most recent post.

[Entsuropi]

Uhm. a question. Is  this still being played at www.saintehlers.com or are you working on the idea of moving it here? nobody has actually stated either way.

And ehler, yeah sure. make the character scottish tho. easier to RP and all that. i spend loads of time browsing the internet anyway, so i might as well try a BB rpg game. oh, are barbarians on the menu? ive never played one of them.  and, you want me to make a NPC PC, right? does that mean i dont have to create a character history etc? pity. i like making those.

oh and dont bother eamiling me 42, ive found the proggy already. linkage : http://www.pcgen.sourceforge.net. unfortunately, it doesnt have Oriental Adventures. poo.

oh, and the WoD character maker is called Characturge, not chargen.

[Tage]

Well, I like a lot of the comments I've seen so far about a RPG forum. Personally I don't think the XP awards should be automatic, though. No matter what you do, someone will find a way to abuse it. I think XP should be awarded by DM, just like it is in any good RPG.

Multiple characters per account is a very good idea, but wow, you just made the whole idea much more complicated. I think you're right, though, it would be necessary for a good RPG forum.

Hmm... well, what else can you all come up with?