Author Topic: Traveller  (Read 2320 times)

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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Traveller
« on: May 11, 2003, 10:33:50 PM »
I just glanced over the reviews, partially because I already knew what ElJeffe would say about CT. But really, KK, you think that there's an improvement on Classic Traveller? Perhaps you think this improvement is GURPS Traveller where they essentially re-wrote the setting AND the rules, in which case there was no reason to even call it Traveller except for the rights to use some of the same terms? Perhaps you think it's the new "T20" which adds so many new rules and procedures and alters so many d20 basic rules that there was no motivation to make it d20 and completely ruined the entire feel of the game?

I don't get it. The thing that was great about C.T. was that it was simple and fast. Hard Sci-Fi that you didn't have to fiddle with every single possible science question. It ran smooth and quick because it didn't bear you down. Both GURPS and the T20 versions were so hard to read that I had to keep a brick on hand to smash my head three or four times a page to keep me focused. If you want to play Traveller, than C.T. is the only way to play it. If you don't like C.T., then you probably need to find a completely different game.

Slant

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Re: Traveller
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2003, 01:25:59 AM »
I always enjoyed Traveller.  Way back in the days when Die-Hard Gamers were really Die-Hard Gamers, you could actually die during character creation.  Now THAT was cool!

One of the complaints that I remember from the reviews posted was that there were only a handful of military classes and "other."  The whole point of the game was that the characters were all ex-military who were now selling their services as mercenaries and adventurers.

The best thing about the game (along with the "death during character generation" dealie) was that the characters greatest enemy was Time itself.  As characters aged, thier attributes and skills declined at a fair clip.  This was one of those games where you were expected to live fast, play hard, and go out with a bang!

I really have an issue with the need for game companies like GURPS and WotC to buy the rights to make their own versions of games that were already just fine to begin with.  Why on earch do we need GURPS Castle Faulkenstein when the original was a work of art already?  Do we really need a D20 version of Deadlands when the orignal system is so innovative?  No, we don't.  And so, do we need any other version of Traveller besides the classic one?  

I, for one, will be out there looking for that recently released reprint of all the original Traveller books.
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Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: Traveller
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2003, 09:23:31 AM »
Megatraveller more playable???? Even the most diehard MT player on Citizens of the Imperium or downport would laugh at you.  Megatraveller was a notoriusly buggy game of GDW's house rules that took up 3 times as much space to get the same idea across that CT did. Ship construction was needlessly complicated and involved huge amounts of math. The only thing MT had for it was a good storyline that paralled another sci-fi classic "Star Wars" with its weak rebellion against the empire drivil.

I only reviewed the first 3 books too, (even though I have reprint 0-8).
Kid doesn't seem to have read the books that much at all unfortunately. He bases much of his review on Megatraveller (a later traveller game and Traveller 2300 AD and Dark Conspiracy games that are not part of the traveller line.  Plus rules provied in the Supplements books and in High Guard, Mercenary, Scouts, and Merchant Prince make character creation very interesting.
Eric 's right by the way the only way to play traveller is to use classic. Succesive editions (MegaTraveller, Traveller New Era, Imperium Games Marc Millers Traveller, Gurps Traveller, and T20 have all been either needlessly complicated (in the case of the former 3) or completely out of character (in the case of the latter).  Yes Traveller is a bare bones system designed for GM who like to do a little legwork when preparing a game but I dont think that that makes it a flaw. Combat is a little bit of a problem but it can also be fixed by buying snapshot or the Little White Book supplement At Close Quarters by BITS (British Isles Traveller Support) which has all sorts of good combat rules from overwatch points to full auto fire.
Interestingly enough Hex wasn't enough to keep KID from playing MegaTraveller (which used hex also) possible one of the most buggy games ever made.
I guess my objections to KK's review come from the fact that he seeems to have skimmed the character creation section rather than read it.  A character does not have to die if they don't make a survival throw. If the player and GM agree they can be automatically kicked out of the service due to a horrible injury (from which you have now recovered)
Also a character does not start losing atributes at thirty. They start having to roll to keep from losing atributes. While this may not seem to be much of a distinction I assure you it is. My 42 year old Merchant captain hasn't lost a single attribute point due to aging yet.
Skills are a little under developed by todays standards but anything could be easily changed or added to for ease of play. The inclusion of cascade skills in my oopinion was brillant and allowed two players to have a melee weapon skill that was completely different.  

Plus I think the format for the Reprints is very attractive, they are 11 by 8.5 and all black with a marking band for each. Collected they are cheaper than many other games and definately a great collectors item.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2003, 09:27:47 AM by ElJeffe »
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The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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Re: Traveller
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2003, 11:38:27 AM »
Just to clarify, WotC did NOT have anything to do with the new d20 Traveller except in making an open liscence for a game mechanic which RPG Realms used to make the new version. I think WotC is a lot like Microsoft. They've done a lot for role playing, but what they do is not necessarily the BEST game system around, and despite the claims of the developers and the makers, it isn't as universally useful as they'd like it to be.

Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: Traveller
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2003, 11:43:24 AM »
The more I have though about it the more I decided I agree with you about T20 and just about every D20 space game Eric. They just dont work.  Sadly I think someone will have to do a high budget Dune or Star Wars game with a new workable system to be worth playing. I think Im going to stick to Classic Traveller for my sci-fi from now on.
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Traveller
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2003, 12:06:50 PM »
Hey guys, we posted two reviews of this game specifically because the opinions were so different. If you like a game that Kid hates, swallow your bile and live with it.
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Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: Traveller
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2003, 12:24:01 PM »
I dont mind that he hates it fell, I mind that he got it wrong on several points. Those points seem to be his major sticking points. So I responded to them.

Plus I dont like his reviewing style which sounds a little like.
I like this,
I like this,
I like this,
and thats why I hated it.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2003, 12:28:10 PM by ElJeffe »
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Re: Traveller
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2003, 01:38:59 PM »
hey, I comment on my OWN reviews. and I disagree with everyone from time to time. And really, I deliberately tried to stay away from saying he was wrong for not liking a game. I simply saw a statement that didn't seem to make sense.

I agree. there's no reason to be hatin'. True, I don't think I've ever agreed with a KK review. But I've never met him. I don't hate him.

But on that note, you're not asking people to not post responses to reviews they didn't like, are you?

Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: Traveller
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2003, 01:50:50 PM »
I never said not liking the game was wrong and that Kid wasn't entitled to that opinion either....

I just think its funny that he endorses Megatraveller which is essentially the same game (with a few of the design companies house rules including the equation laden Fire Fusion and Steel supplement for building ships {you think hex is hard try getting the mass/ velocity ratio right on an Aslan Cruiser}) and pans Traveller using information that isn't right.  

Just for the record.

There are plenty of games I don't like out there that other people love.
But If I said something that was wrong about a game that I was reviewing I would like to be corrected so I don't say it again.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2003, 01:54:46 PM by ElJeffe »
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Traveller
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2003, 02:08:01 PM »
No, go ahead and post comments on reviews; far be it from me to stifle free speech on my own forum. I just thought it was weird that these particular disagreements were so virulent, particularly given that we posted a positive review of the game at the same time. But go ahead and critique: that's what the board is for.
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Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: Traveller
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2003, 02:09:15 PM »
I didn't see them as virulent... but maybe its just me. Im sorry if I sounded hateful.
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