Palladium Games

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

However WW errs on the side of Minor annoyance penalty to roll and not"oh my god, someone just shot me!!!"

[Fellfrosch]

The Inquisitor system is similar, sort of a location-based damage level idea rather than a tally of hit points.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Except I really dont need a hit location chart. You can die from just about any gunshot wound if you are untreated.

As a GM I just want a simple mechanic I can look at and say " you just got shot in the leg and it hurts like hell. You think your bone is broken. What are you going to do to stop the bleeding before you pass out?"

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

I just think that combat should be as dangerous as it is in real life.

In Warhammer FRP I remember that characters rarely had over 4 or 5 hits before death.  It made combat quick and brutal.

[Spriggan]

The Robotech SDC/MDC situation was different the Rifts.  In the Robotech universe the only MDC items they had were from the Robotech technology they found.  And that stuff required so much power to generate that much damage that it wasn't untill Sentanals that they had managed to make the size/damage ratio good.  It fit with the world.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

I dont think thats true- PreProtoculture stuff still had MDC (Armd Space platforms, tanks and such) and there were man portable MDC weapons back pack laser in Robotech. By Southern Cross Man Portable MDC weapons were common, but I didnt mind because in the show lots of weapons could blow up bioroids. Invid Invasion (the best Robotech book IMHO) introduced man sized mecha!!!! (Granted they were from the show) that had stats comparable to Battleroids in the first game (except the MAC II). Almost every weapon in Invid invasion did mdc except for the odd hunting rife. But since most folks always wore their battle armor (so their cyclone could transform) it was moot  to have SDC.

[Fellfrosch]

What, do you sleep in your armor? Do you live in it 24 hours a day? Do you never have to deal with SDC targets? I've never played Robotech, so I can't comment on it, but in Rifts it's always very useful to have SDC weapons--what happens if you get into a barfight, or a track a suspect into the Burbs? Start going crazy with MDC weapons and you'll quickly end up with dozens of collateral casualties and more than a few demolished buildings. How can you hunt for food in the wilderness if your rifle vaporizes the target?

I'm not going to argue that Palladium's combat system is without flaws, because I think it begs for house rules and modification. I've never had a problem with MDC, though.

[Spriggan]

PreProtoculture stuff still had MDC (Armd Space platforms, tanks and such)

true but in real life does a pistol or rifle damage a tank?  No the weapons that do are high explosives that in Palladium do like 1d4x100+ weapons which is 1-4 mdc.  Not very much but tanks only have about that much.  And if I remeber correctly all of the pre-protoculitre vheicles are listed in SDC not MDC.  And the Space platforms were modified after the SDF-1 landed with new tech. But then once they get access to the alien tech the armor gets better but the weapons don't as much in the begining sence its harder to understand a how a weapon works.  As for Sothern Cross.  True they had hand held MDC weapons but they do sucky damage, If I remeber correctly the most damageing one did 2d4 MDC.   Invid invasion happend after Sentanls while Sothern Cross happened at roughly the same time.  If you compare all 4 robotech books with each other and Rifts you'll see a big damage difference.  And that shows 2 things, as time progressed the Tech got better and as said in many RIFTS books:  the abundance of leylines and magical energy not only affects alien creatires (makeing them MDC where as on their home world many are not) but also affects technology in a way not understood (makeing weapons deal more damage).  The old rifts conversion book explained this a little better.
And as Fell said i've never had an adventure where you stay in your Mech 24/7.  But I think you get that point.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Most vehicles wern't listed in SDC, and no I dont expect a pistol to hurt a tank. But I do expect a bullet to do some damage when striking body armor, even if it is just bruising. Plus Explosives like shaped charges in Robotech were given SDC damage (untill Invid invasion).
If .50 cal bullets can bring down an A-10 in real life then why can't they bring down a veritech?

[Spriggan]

because the alloy use in the veratechs armor was so strong and light a .50 cal wouldn't dent it.  That was what made the humans scared about the aliens weapons and possible attack.  So they stoped WW3 and spent 10+ years studying the new technology and only after that amount of time had figured out how to produce to same type of armor.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Nah I dont buy it,... I watched the show the Veritech were tough but not that tough.
Hey don't worry about it, I'll never be satisfied with palladiums combat system, no big deal.

[Mr_Pleasington]

This recent discussion reminded me that I actually RAN Robotech once...man, I had totally blocked that out.  It was a terrible experience and I don't think the game emulated the show well at all.  Eh.

And I'd completely forgotten about the SDC/MDC problems...

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

I love the smell of validation in the middle to late afternoon. You know the smell; the warm cinnamonny smell; smells like victory!

[Spriggan]

I own the shows read the books played the game and almost spent $300 on a real tech manual for a Veratech (it was done buy real areospace and mechinal enginers and contained all the blueprints to make one) trust me when I speak Robotech.  And Veratechs were tough but they allwayse fought against other MDC things so they didn't appear all that special.   You don't have to beleave me if you don't want to but it is how the game and story was explained.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

But it still doesnt explain how the gunpod (which is essentially a gatling cannon (according to the blueprints, reference materials and other stuff) can tear into battlepods like hot butter and an 50 cal anti-aircraft gun (essentially built the same way) cant touch a Veritech.
Trust me Im a Protoculture Addict, loved the show and everything about it and I still have to disagree with you on the MDC/SDC issue.