review: Iron Kingdoms

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

reference: http://www.timewastersguide.com/view.php?id=889

I really wish that Sprig hadn't asked for this, because *I* wanted it. Now that he's reviewed it, I'm sending my ninja monkeys to retrieve it for me. No one should stand in their way.

[Spriggan]

My warjacks are programed to protect my book, your monkeys are no match for the epidimy of magic and technology!

[Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock]

Did he, I think  he, did he mean epitimy?

[Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock]

eek, what an ending. But it seems like this should be more of a 5 or 5.5. And the whole "magic makes technology go" thing, well, I found that to be a bit incredulous. It would seem it takes a great deal of effort on the builder's part to just build something like that. Why would it need magic to go if they have the technology? Is it just an added flare, or are there actual advantages to having magic in such technology?

I like maps too. Now I'm very wary of this setting, and settings in general. Not that the map thing gave me wary to not think about.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I did think about it, and that was the nature of Sprig's comment at the end to the editors (deleted before publication). The only drawback I could think about at the end was the lack of map, which was an intentional drop out for this particularly volume. HOwever, you do spend some time criticizing the lack of tech without magic. Care to expound on that point?

[Spriggan]

Because it was a personal prefrence, the system they worked out is very good, yet I would have perfered another.  That dosen't mean it's any worse or better then the system they chose, nor is there any real flaw in their system.  Yet it's worth noteing that mages, and their ilk, are still the only ones that can make usefull items.

[Spriggan]

And I decided that takeing off for the map would be unfair because there are so many things done to perfection in the book, yet they didn't include a map becaue you can get one from other sources.  Also the book dosen't spend many pages on locals, but how the world works.

I also had a problem keeping the review a review.  I've been working on it for a few days now and it kept on comming out more of a infomercial then a cretique.  Gemm you're welcome to disagree with me, I personaly don't agree with the other 2 perfect scores in the RPG section, these things are all subjective to the person's tastes and prefrences.

[Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock]

Yes yes, but of course.

And I'm not criticizing tech without magic, I'm criticizing tech with magic. Why does there have to be magic involved with tech? Wouldn't at one point those who are helping create such things (I'm presumming they are such things like automated suits of armor, or even steam powered caravans or some such) wouldn't they learn from these people how to create their own without the aid of magic?

I guess I can ask the question, are our gas-powered engines then a product of magic being incorporated with the wheel?

In actuality I (personally, not beligerring anyone else) find that to have a need for magic in technology will aid in the destruction of some.

This has all just come off the top of my head. Don't heed the words too much.

[Spriggan]

Well the reason they give is that it's just a different course of development then our world.  They use the magic with the technology becaue they can and it makes things easier.  Sure there are non-magical tech stuff, but it's harder to make and less efficent.

For example, the Jacks are constructs that are clockwork and steam powered, yet they use magic to make them intellegent and easy to control as well as better fighters.  Yes they could make something like them that wasn't magic but it would have to be piloted or possible very crude prgramming would allow for some simple tasks to be assigned.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Well, it's fantasy. Magic abounds.

They may learn another way to do it, but as they say, necessity is the mother of invention, unless there was a desparate need to find an alternate way, not many would work on it very hard. Assuming that their general level of tech is medieval or Renassance, it would take a very long time to reproduce a robot or a mechanized suit of armor (I mean heck, we're barely getting there and it's been hundreds  and hundreds of years since Platemail was invented). I actually find it harder to believe that someone has reproduced the same effects in this given society than that no one has. In short, if the tech is driven by magic, there's no reason to thing that the non-magic tech is anywhere near keeping the pace, since it would, probably, be retarded by magitech.

[Lieutenant Kije]

did he mean epitimy?

Epitome.  Epitome.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

heh. Correcting poor spelling with more poor spelling makes you look funny.

/me points and laughs.

[Spriggan]

since there seams to be some confusion on my original paragraph dealing with machaniks (that's the word for the hybrid tech) I'm changeing the paragraph to:

Technology is a hodge-podge of stem engines, clockworks, and magic.  While there is technology that doesn’t rely on magic, mostly mundane and simpler versions of magic items, the vast majority of those presented in the book are a mingling of both.  While this isn’t a bad thing, it is disappointing for those, such as myself, that were looking for a pure alternative to using magic.  To be able to make many things adventurers would find useful you need to be a magic using class, so while the finished products are different the means of creating them are more or less the same.  I don’t see much point in having a magic version of an item and a technology version if the only person who can make them are the same classes; however, adding the magic element to the tech does allow for easy balancing of the rules and explaining how Victorian age technology can equal magic.  That being said there are means, though not as powerful or easy to make, to make pure mechaincal equivalant of some items.  Instead of makeing a magical flame thrower (ie wand of burning hands) one could make a flame thrower, though it would do less damage and require a lot of fule to power.

[Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock]

Ok, well blah to you SE. =P

I liked your post about the jacks. That helps explain it a bit better. Yes, I understand it's more of a simplification of things. I guess I'm just coming at it from the standpoint of taking the setting and using it. IE (that is) using the setting and then adding certain plot elements to it. EG a powerful ruler is trying to rid the world of magic so as to stop the advancement of technology.

I'm sure the book rocks and everything. I just want to have some things layed out before I go about looking for it.

Epitimy.

[Spriggan]

So I want to know what you all think of the review itself, normaly I don't care that much, but sence I spent so much time on it I've been thinking about it.  I realy don't think the reveiw is as good as it should have been even though I spent more time on it then any of the reviews/articles I've done in the past year.  I don't think it's a bad reveiw, yet I still feel that something just didn't come off right.